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TimSweeneyEpic's profile
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
@TimSweeneyEpic

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Tim Sweeney

@TimSweeneyEpic

Epic Games founder & CEO

epicgames.com
Joined August 2013

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    1. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      Just eliminated C++ exceptions in a complicated multithreaded library. It’s 15% faster despite all performance sensitive functions previously being declared noexcept, with no obvious explanation.

      38 replies 140 retweets 904 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      Exception throwing on Windows x64 is 8,000 CPU cycles in Visual C++ and 20,000 in clang, but grows to 1,800,000 when a debugger is attached to the process.

      4 replies 19 retweets 144 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      This cost is mind-boggling for what is essentially a goto-with-destructors. In the process of adopting the “zero cost exceptions” fallacy, modern platforms created a catastrophic performance cliff that makes the feature unusable in real software.

      5 replies 8 retweets 188 likes
      Show this thread
      Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      And it’s not just C++. Other languages build their exception models on top of C++ exceptions and the operating system level plumbing (why should the OS have anything to do with this?) so, for example, JavaScript exceptions are also impractically expensive.

      7:01 PM - 30 Jan 2020
      • 6 Retweets
      • 138 Likes
      • cloutless kalin Nabih Kenny McCormick Amirhossein Mirtabatabaeipour Konstantin Mikheev James Koss Nick Gerace JoeTDC
      10 replies 6 retweets 138 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          I don’t think it’s a good “feature” even if it were fast. It makes code hard to understand and forces you to write everything in an “exception-safe” manner which is very hard, almost nobody gets right, and has huge cost. For what, exactly?

          4 replies 0 retweets 67 likes
        3. Unbound Worlds Apart‏ @UnboundTheGame Feb 2
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          Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @TimSweeneyEpic

          Let's say you are driving a car and its engine is controlable by software, and suddenly you have an engine failure. Will you let the software crash and automatically stop the car? Or it will handle the exception and notify the driver about the problem and let him take decision?

          4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 7 more replies
        1. Patrick Walton‏ @pcwalton Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          Note that Rust lets you change panic to abort for this reason, and the library ecosystem is designed such that libraries work without catchable panic enabled.

          0 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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        1. Ben Adams‏ @ben_a_adams Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          Exception handling for languages using C++/OS exception handling is expensive, also is expensive (dev time wise) to write your own, though... has been done and could be done again https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr/issues/25167#issuecomment-532757367 …pic.twitter.com/1NyM7isTcW

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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        2. Leonard Mosescu‏ @LeonardMosescu Jan 31
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          I'm not trying to defend the C++ EH model, but here are a few thoughts to consider: 1/n

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Leonard Mosescu‏ @LeonardMosescu Jan 31
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          Replying to @LeonardMosescu @TimSweeneyEpic

          1. Possible explanation for performance delta despite no obvious code generation differences: second-level consequences of instruction cache hits and paging (this is why post-link optimizations are so effective)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 4 more replies
        1. System Rigging Robot‏ @jwatte Jan 31
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          I think this is actually good, because they are exceptions. The performance should not matter -- you should take zero exceptions in a frame. That it costs something even when not throwing anything is sad, though.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. NYC Hackrepreneur‏ @C4C_Recruiting Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          Really glad to have learned this. Thanks, Tim. Totally changed the way I think about exception handling.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Olson‏ @olson_dan May 18
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          I'm led to believe that ocaml/ML exceptions are cheap.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yawar Amin‏ @yawaramin May 18
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          Replying to @olson_dan @TimSweeneyEpic

          They are, partly (mostly?) because they don't include stack traces by default. Those need to be turned on when starting the application.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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