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TimSweeneyEpic's profile
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
Tim Sweeney
@TimSweeneyEpic

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Tim Sweeney

@TimSweeneyEpic

Epic Games founder & CEO

epicgames.com
Joined August 2013

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    1. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation

      Just eliminated C++ exceptions in a complicated multithreaded library. It’s 15% faster despite all performance sensitive functions previously being declared noexcept, with no obvious explanation.

      38 replies 140 retweets 904 likes
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    2. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      • Report NetzDG Violation

      Exception throwing on Windows x64 is 8,000 CPU cycles in Visual C++ and 20,000 in clang, but grows to 1,800,000 when a debugger is attached to the process.

      4 replies 19 retweets 144 likes
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      Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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      This cost is mind-boggling for what is essentially a goto-with-destructors. In the process of adopting the “zero cost exceptions” fallacy, modern platforms created a catastrophic performance cliff that makes the feature unusable in real software.

      6:59 PM - 30 Jan 2020
      • 8 Retweets
      • 188 Likes
      • . Noah Witherspoon Mårten Möller Juha Kallio-Kujala Mike Erwin 🌘🌑🌒 Forbin Project DaVince Pyromura John Brooks
      5 replies 8 retweets 188 likes
        1. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 30
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          And it’s not just C++. Other languages build their exception models on top of C++ exceptions and the operating system level plumbing (why should the OS have anything to do with this?) so, for example, JavaScript exceptions are also impractically expensive.

          10 replies 6 retweets 138 likes
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        2. Scott Michaud‏ @scottmichaud Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          There's a proposal for lighter-weight exceptions in C++. Basically a std::variant return value that either returns what you want or an error... where the compiler converts all that to familiar try/catch semantics. It's a Herb Sutter thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Scott Michaud‏ @scottmichaud Jan 30
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          Replying to @scottmichaud @TimSweeneyEpic

          Of course then there's the whole argument about what an exceptional situation is. Should exceptions just be recoverable, but breaking situations, such as losing internet connection? But then, how should you handle minor errors? Mixed error handling's also bad. Etc. etc.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Jonathan Müller‏ @foonathan Jan 31
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          Ignoring all other downsides of exceptions, "zero-cost" just means that in the case where you don't throw, you don't have a runtime overhead for non-exceptional code branch, which is true. Of course the downside is lots of overhead when actually throwing and catching.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Tim Sweeney‏ @TimSweeneyEpic Jan 31
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          Replying to @foonathan

          I wish it were just normal “lots” like 100 cycles given the need to use a hash table to map the current return address to an exception handler and examine an RTTI type. The 8,000 cycles is inscrutable.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. s‏ @idoccor Jan 30
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          You're right, exceptions should jump to a code section way far away that has all the exception handlers in one place. Like an __attribute__(cold) on steroids. People who (unwisely) use exceptions as control flow wouldn't even notice. The handlers will be hot to them.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. graham inside‏ @soylentgraham Jan 31
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          Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic

          Unusable is a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? :)

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