Here you go: logic expressed as a data structure. And no, you can't "take any piece of code and treat it as data": you can make a data structure representing the piece of code, which is different (and then it's data, not code). So, no, this is totally off.https://twitter.com/ShriramKMurthi/status/1047189566669635585 …
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @yogthos and
But isn't homiconicity as used in context simply an observation about affordances for the human user of Lisp code? It simply means you can structurally find your way around code using the perceptual skills you use to find your way around data.
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ShriramKrishnamurthi Retweeted ShriramKrishnamurthi
Let me tell you why I'm going on about this. I think there's something magical and special about Lisp syntax. It's my favorite and paren-haters irritate the heck out of me. It's what I taught my daughter. She put it on my lunch. »https://twitter.com/ShriramKMurthi/status/1047519564186013696 …
ShriramKrishnamurthi added,
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
But I also value careful and precise thinking and writing. And I don't have much tolerance for BS in most any sphere. (I'm really bad at official committees and such. Either I change them to be effective or leave.) »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
h11y has acquired a cult status in the Lisp community, in particular. It's sometimes used, implicitly, as a cudgel. Look how superior my language is? Why? Because it's homoiconic! »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
I'm delighted that people are excited about their tools. Even more excited when it's a tool I love too (or, heck, a tool that I helped MAKE!). We're allies. It's great. But there's that BS-detector part of my brain that won't let it go. »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
I have read numerous blog posts and the like about h11y. I don't really understand them. They don't give *definitions*, they give *examples*. I go through in my head the same kind of exchanges we've seen on Twitter. »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
I've sometimes even mailed/asked people. The outcome is the same as on Twitter. There is no definition that I can find that is even well-formed, much less one that precisely captures what they're trying to say. »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
In particular, inasmuch as it's meant to be some kind of characteristic of Lispy syntaxes, their definitions never actually exclude the languages that (I know) their gut tells them are not homoiconic. In other words, I call BS. »
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Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @rplevy and
I wouldn't at all be irritated if someone just said "we have quote and eval and you don't". Those are just true statements. But when people trot out a ten dollar word like HOMOICONIC, they're trying to snow others under. Then they better be RIGHT. »
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Yes, the magic of these languages is in quote/unquote or quasiquote/unquote, which add expressive power in the form of abstraction over syntax. Exposing these constructs in non-LISP language syntaxes shows that code-as-data isn't particular to LISP syntax.
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Replying to @TimSweeneyEpic @ShriramKMurthi and
I think the key difference is that with Lisp s-exps you're using a single language because the code is expressed using literal data structure notation. Other syntaxes require an additional metalanguage for this.
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Replying to @yogthos @TimSweeneyEpic and
JavaScript. (At least give an answer that hasn't already been addressed!)
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