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TheOneTAR's profile
T. Caires (they/them) @ 🏡
T. Caires (they/them) @ 🏡
T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡
@TheOneTAR

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T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡

@TheOneTAR

Has beaten Ghost Stories. A Tabletop Gamer. Games Manager at HABA USA. Tweets are my own. PN:They/Them

Portland, OR
youtube.com/TheOneTAR
Joined April 2008

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    T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

    WHATS UP, it's almost 9pm and I wanna do another rant about the cost of making board gamessssss

    8:53 PM - 25 Apr 2018
    • 63 Retweets
    • 250 Likes
    • David Masnato Angelo Nikolaou Matt Yeager BLM Jess Fisher Ben Shienvold Luke Evison Cristina ◎ Codes Ciotóg Creative Ivo Ilić
    26 replies 63 retweets 250 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        So let's start at the beginning. Let's say our friend Heidi is designing a game. She's working on it in the evenings, after work, and playtesting it on weekends at local shops.

        4 replies 1 retweet 39 likes
        Show this thread
      3. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        She wakes up, goes to work, tweaks card balances at lunch, works some more, goes home and tweaks some more, prints and cuts out new cards, sleeves them, plays games by herself, repeats, goes to bed late.

        2 replies 0 retweets 33 likes
        Show this thread
      4. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        She's learned how to streamline card creation with InDesign, through @DanielSolis' fantastic Patreon videos, which she pays for access. She's bought a printer, cardstock, a paper cutter...

        2 replies 0 retweets 38 likes
        Show this thread
      5. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        She's worked on her little, 52 card game for over a year now. And she's taken it to probably 17 play test nights at her FLGS? Playing it, and other people's games, to be fair to those that play her game.

        1 reply 0 retweets 31 likes
        Show this thread
      6. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        She has put probably 500 hours into this game over the last year, and who knows how much money. And that math is based on actual numbers from designers I know with similar sized games.

        2 replies 0 retweets 35 likes
        Show this thread
      7. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        She takes it to an Unpub or a Protospiel and people really like it. Like, REALLY like it. So much so that publisher signs it! For simplicity, we'll say the contact is for $2000 now, and 1% of sales after 3000 copies have sold.

        2 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      8. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        But now, Heidi's work is basically done. The publisher has paid her the initial 2k and now they have the game, to theme and tweak just a lil'.

        1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
        Show this thread
      9. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        Their developer, who makes minimum wage, plays the game with a variety of people. Takes it to game nights and shows and puts it through its paces. Let's say they play 20 times, an hour a play, at minimum wage.

        1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
        Show this thread
      10. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        They decide it's ready for art. So the publisher hires an artist to make, let's say... 26 unique pieces of art. It costs the publisher $120 a piece of art. Oh, plus a $400 cover.

        1 reply 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      11. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        While the art is being made, the developer is still playing the game. Showing it off, asking for thoughts, trying to figure out its price points.

        1 reply 0 retweets 28 likes
        Show this thread
      12. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        The developer also writes the first draft of the official rulebook. Maybe the publisher outsources the editing and final rulebook writing, but the developer takes the first swing.

        2 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
        Show this thread
      13. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        Then, it's ready to print! The publisher has a manufacturer they've worked with and like (because this rant is long enough I dun wanna explain manufacturer shopping). They call up the manufacturer and book a printing slot.

        1 reply 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      14. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        Manufacturers book slots like fancy hair salons - No Walk-ins Allowed. You need to book your slot to have your game printed weeks, if not months, out. Because this is just a card game, there's no fancy dies or molds needed (thank jeebs).

        1 reply 0 retweets 31 likes
        Show this thread
      15. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        Publisher books the slot for a 52 card game with box, and orders 3000 copies, the minimum order size for some distribution companies. It will cost $1 a game, to physically make.

        1 reply 0 retweets 30 likes
        Show this thread
      16. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        So, to be insanely basic, this print run will cost $3000 to make. BUT! The printer is in Asia. It'll cost $3500 to get the games to the distributor's warehouse in the US. So now each game costs $2.50 to actually make and get to the warehouse.

        2 replies 0 retweets 31 likes
        Show this thread
      17. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        This cost doesn't already include the check to Heidi ($2000), the art ($3520), or the developer's work ($1000), OR a rulebook editor/graphic designer ($300). Those costs bring each copy to ~$4.44 a copy.

        2 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      18. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        The MSRP of this hour long game for 2-4 players, with 52 cards? Let's make it $20, cause why not.

        2 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
        Show this thread
      19. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        So the games arrive at the distribution warehouse which buys the games from the publisher at 35% of MSRP, so $7. This means the publisher has made, off this first print run, $2.56 a copy. So $7,680. Honestly, most of that is already spent.

        1 reply 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      20. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        The publisher has to pay the rest of their staff, in addition to convention fees advertising for the new game, review copies, etc.

        1 reply 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      21. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        But the game. It's now at the distribution warehouse, where game stores can purchase it from the distributor at 50% of MSRP. So Heidi's FLGS buys 10 copies, at $10 a pop, to show support for their local designer. They get free shipping for spending $100.

        2 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
        Show this thread
      22. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 25 Apr 2018

        The distributor makes $3 a copy off the sale, so $30, which they basically lose immediately paying their warehouse staff, the shipping fees, etc.

        2 replies 0 retweets 32 likes
        Show this thread
      23. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        The game store will make $10 a copy when it sells, which will go to cover their costs (employees, taxes, rent, power, POS systems, accountants, etc.). That's IF they don't offer a discount below MSRP, which some stores do to compete with online resellers.

        2 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
        Show this thread
      24. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        Online resellers will buy the games from the same distributor, but because their facilities are often just big warehouses, they don't need to pay the high rent of a shop front. So they sell the game for $15, severally undervaluing the game. Also hurting local game stores.

        1 reply 0 retweets 16 likes
        Show this thread
      25. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        THEN there's Amazon resellers, who are even worse. They buy the game from the distributor and then immediately ship it to Amazon's fulfillment center. They don't even HAVE a space to pay rent on, so they list the game for $12.99, earning them $2 after Amazon fees/taxes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
        Show this thread
      26. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        Now the online game retailer is forced to push their prices lower to compete, and the local game store with the helpful employees and safe gaming spaces have to deal with customers who learn about Heidi's game from them, and then buy on Amazon while standing in the store.

        1 reply 0 retweets 15 likes
        Show this thread
      27. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        Amazon resellers make bank by ordering lots of different titles and selling them through Amazon's fulfillment centers. Those $2 a game (sometimes it's more like $.50 a game) adds up when all you're doing is freight forwarding for 4000 games.

        1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
        Show this thread
      28. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        And yes, they really do this. We had an issue once where a retailer tried to order $7000 in product. Instead of being excited, we were cautious. Sure enough, his listed retail space was a mailbox at a UPS store. And his store was just a pretty website that linked to Amazon.

        1 reply 1 retweet 16 likes
        Show this thread
      29. T. Caires (they/them) @  🏡‏ @TheOneTAR 5 Dec 2020

        We could have made $7k that day. No skin off our noses, right? 7k is 7k, no matter who we sell to. BUT what that person does with those games can hurt the entire ecosystem of the industry. It allows people to undervalue our products, stores, designers, publishers, and industry.

        1 reply 0 retweets 40 likes
        Show this thread
      30. End of conversation

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