Just to clarify (I'll be doing a bit of that in this thread, apologies in advance), DICE was never a version of MAME. It was its own separate project that tackled the issue with combined analog/digital netlist simulation prior to MAME doing so in recent years.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @TheMogMiner
Yeah, I could've worded that better...I'd meant it as "similar to MAME" not associated with MAME.
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Vastauksena käyttäjälle @katewillaert
No worries, just a minor point! About the only other clarification is that other than a small handful of Pong-like derivatives, most CPU-less games in the 70's *did* have ROMs, just not as we think of them today. You did allude to this later, though. :-)
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
At this point, MAME's netlist simulation tech is pretty bulletproof when dealing with circuits that are primarily digital logic, so theoretically, it would be trivial (but grind-y) to bring up any of these discrete games for which ROMs are dumped, given schematics. BUT -
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
- the main issue I found when going ham on some audio netlists, as well as Atari's "Tank", during my month-long summer vacation last year, is that the quality of most schematics in circulation tends toward the unreadable end of things.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
Most of the scans that exist date back to the mid to late 90's, when disk space (and bandwidth) was at a premium, so they tend to be PDF'd versions of 1-bit scans, and they tended to be scanned with little (if any) quality control on the schematics themselves.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
While things like the BOM (for manuals that included one), and the service-related text tends to come through just fine, schematics suffer from everything from "lost" traces, to unreadable part values, even to unreadable part types.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
Anyway, regarding the sprite-related ROMs themselves, they tended to be 4-bit PROMs, limited to around 128 to 256 words of data, and given the pinout, were easy to mistake for a typical quad logic gate chip of the time.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
So unfortunately, as high of a priority as it is to find any remaining discrete-logic boards that used PROMs or BPROMs for sprite data, and get them dumped, since they're well outside the expected lifespan already - a push to re-acquire and re-scan manuals is just as needed.
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Vastauksena käyttäjille @TheMogMiner ja @katewillaert
I wonder if this is something that arcade collectors/historians like
@CatDeSpira may be able to help out on? Sounds like even just scans of the schematic pages would be a huge help.1 vastaus 0 uudelleentwiittausta 2 tykkäystä
I mean, yeah, absolutely! Things like DIP-switch settings (or, given the vintage, rotary-switch settings) are useful, but other than that, just the BOM and schematics are really needed to get going on transcribing the netlist of a TTL game that already has its BPROMs dumped.
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Is there a record somewhere of TTL games that have the graphics roms dumped already? It's probably a shorter list than the ones still outstanding!
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It's not ideal, but TTL-based games are currently divvied up based on manufacturer. So if you pull the latest MAME source, then in src/mame/drivers/, look in: aleisttl, atarittl, exidyttl, meadwttl, segattl, and taitottl.cpp, examine ROM defs toward EOF to see what's there.
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