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TeubenRoald's profile
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
@TeubenRoald

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Roald Teuben

@TeubenRoald

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Baltimore, MD
Joined July 2017

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    1. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism

      I don’t know if this works, since I could build Rube Goldberg machines of arbitrary complexity, more complex than any human, and then in this model, they would have more moral value than humans

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @0x49fa98 @simpolism

      That's part of why it's imprecise, because complexity is not standardized. How many humans equal one of your Rube Goldberg's? n/a

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      OTOH child sexual abuse seems totally unrelated to universal complexity

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Inductive reasoning: Sex abuse leads to trauma, addiction, therefore a less a productive society. A meteor might smash Earth in 300 years. Our preparation (survival) may be a function of how much sex abuse went unchecked. Thus, sex abuse is contrary to universal complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Point of my example is that this moral framework can consistently judge what is "evil". Striving for "good" is a matter of accumulating complexity (or technocapital?), the end justifying the means. Competitors and natural cataclysms set the stage; adapt or die.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      This puts morality on non-relativistic grounds. In a sense, "god" is the force of natural selection - the final judge, the wages of sin being death.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Complexity/technocapital is then a virtue and the only way to beat the planet's time-limit. Onto the next challenge, requiring more complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      The main flaw I see is defining "complexity". Apparently it's challenging to define rigorously (is it systematic? meta-systematic? mathematical? physical?), and even if we could, there's a subjectivity flaw: how can we know that humans are capable of judging universal complexity?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
      Replying to @simpolism @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      It seems like the real system is based on a hidden axiom: that human (bodies) are the sources of highest complexity, and that we should optimize for complexity. Which means we can totally dispense with the complexity stuff and call it some sort of humanistic utilitarianism.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      It is utilitarianism, but only humanistic insofar as humans are the highest complexity. Suppose we have an AI that calculates with 99% certainty, complete human extinction is required for intelligence to escape the solar system. This is "good".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      But we dont have AI like that, so this same moral system can argue we should feed the homeless, eliminate drugs, etc all so we can be productive enough to not perish. Survival and propagation is the only "good".

      9:42 AM - 18 Aug 2018
      • 1 Like
      • simpolism
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          The older I get, the more I tend toward a subjective-eye rather than a god-eye view of morality, in the sense that I believe ethics should preferentially focus on "the feeling human subject" rather than their bodies or physical existence.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
          Replying to @simpolism @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          The EA "suffering is inherently bad" stuff is the first step, but it's also obviously wrong: a life without suffering would not be "a good life." There must be a balance.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Personally I agree but I don't really know how to answer lol.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation

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