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TeubenRoald's profile
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
@TeubenRoald

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Roald Teuben

@TeubenRoald

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Baltimore, MD
Joined July 2017

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    1. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      I mostly don't see how to get from "universal complexity" to "human life and relations"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Something like: Humans are the highest expression of natural complexity, take that as good, so human life and relations should be maintained. Not saying it's precise, but it's good enough to recognize "degeneracy" like child sex abuse.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism

      I don’t know if this works, since I could build Rube Goldberg machines of arbitrary complexity, more complex than any human, and then in this model, they would have more moral value than humans

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @0x49fa98 @simpolism

      That's part of why it's imprecise, because complexity is not standardized. How many humans equal one of your Rube Goldberg's? n/a

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      OTOH child sexual abuse seems totally unrelated to universal complexity

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Inductive reasoning: Sex abuse leads to trauma, addiction, therefore a less a productive society. A meteor might smash Earth in 300 years. Our preparation (survival) may be a function of how much sex abuse went unchecked. Thus, sex abuse is contrary to universal complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Point of my example is that this moral framework can consistently judge what is "evil". Striving for "good" is a matter of accumulating complexity (or technocapital?), the end justifying the means. Competitors and natural cataclysms set the stage; adapt or die.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      This puts morality on non-relativistic grounds. In a sense, "god" is the force of natural selection - the final judge, the wages of sin being death.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Complexity/technocapital is then a virtue and the only way to beat the planet's time-limit. Onto the next challenge, requiring more complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      The main flaw I see is defining "complexity". Apparently it's challenging to define rigorously (is it systematic? meta-systematic? mathematical? physical?), and even if we could, there's a subjectivity flaw: how can we know that humans are capable of judging universal complexity?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Ultimately it's functional. Players can only model approximately what works. It's like in chess: some moves are better than others but only victory is definitively "good".

      9:33 AM - 18 Aug 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • simpolism "Spooky" Žh∴ 🌲
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 18
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          I'm no game theorist, but isn't chess a finite game, while "the universe" is an infinite game, so the metaphor kinda explodes, unless you think about maybe a game of chess with so many pieces that you'll die before you can finish playing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          You can extend the analogy: life has to succeed at increasingly complex forms of game, analogous to tic-tac-toe, to chess to StarCraft2 and so on. The forms are virtually infinite. So "good" is matter of optimizing strategies for all games.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 18
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

          The first subatomic particle soup killed all the unstable forms but the survivors became molecules, then life. Lifeforms were selected for relentlessly to produce humans. Humans will die if they aren't complex enough for the next stage. It's consistent framework for good and evil

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation

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