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TeubenRoald's profile
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
@TeubenRoald

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Roald Teuben

@TeubenRoald

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Baltimore, MD
Joined July 2017

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    1. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @0x49fa98

      I totally agree. The questions this raises are interesting: * how can an authority arbitrate between two differing notions of goodness? * what is the border b/w "I disagree with your ethics" and "you are evil"? * what does it mean to "recover from an error" sans metaphysics?

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      To elaborate, I see most claims of "X is evil" as saying something like "I think X is bad", but then attributing that judgment to God. I'm not against one holding a notion of badness or evil, but I think people should own their moral judgments.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      To clarify on "is this cultural relativism?" I was attempting to claim the following: 1) it is actions, not people, that are subject to moral judgment 2) it is individuals, not an agentic God, that makes moral judgments Could be theologically argued that (2) is relativist.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    4. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Suppose God's plan is self-evident and unambiguous. Then we would have a universal measure of good and evil. I invite you to read an excerpt from Shantaram. Simply food for thought:https://steemit.com/philosophy/@milinko/shantaram-theory-of-ultimate-complexity …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      I'll give it a read!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Quote: 'Anything that inhibits, impedes, or prevents this movement toward the Ultimate Complexity is evil. The wonderful thing about this definition of good and evil is that it is both objective and universally acceptable.’

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      Read a bit, like the same definition as in Asimov's "The Last Question" http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html … Also it's hard to go from moral principles such as that to something like "evil occurred at Rotherham"

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Yeah it's similar! What makes that bridge of reasoning "hard"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Maybe "hard" is not what you mean. Asking because the quoted character was crime lord in Bombay. While profiting off other things he banished the porn industry on moral principle. He likely would describe the Rotherham perpetrators as evil w/o difficulty.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
      Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

      there is no obvious logical argument

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Rotherham was kind of complex. What's your take on Richard Ramirez?

      12:21 PM - 17 Aug 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          I mostly don't see how to get from "universal complexity" to "human life and relations"

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Something like: Humans are the highest expression of natural complexity, take that as good, so human life and relations should be maintained. Not saying it's precise, but it's good enough to recognize "degeneracy" like child sex abuse.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism

          I don’t know if this works, since I could build Rube Goldberg machines of arbitrary complexity, more complex than any human, and then in this model, they would have more moral value than humans

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @0x49fa98 @simpolism

          That's part of why it's imprecise, because complexity is not standardized. How many humans equal one of your Rube Goldberg's? n/a

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          OTOH child sexual abuse seems totally unrelated to universal complexity

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Inductive reasoning: Sex abuse leads to trauma, addiction, therefore a less a productive society. A meteor might smash Earth in 300 years. Our preparation (survival) may be a function of how much sex abuse went unchecked. Thus, sex abuse is contrary to universal complexity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Point of my example is that this moral framework can consistently judge what is "evil". Striving for "good" is a matter of accumulating complexity (or technocapital?), the end justifying the means. Competitors and natural cataclysms set the stage; adapt or die.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

          This puts morality on non-relativistic grounds. In a sense, "god" is the force of natural selection - the final judge, the wages of sin being death.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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