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TeubenRoald's profile
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
Roald Teuben
@TeubenRoald

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Roald Teuben

@TeubenRoald

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Baltimore, MD
Joined July 2017

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    1. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @0x49fa98

      1/ Calling Rotherham "evil" removes personal agency. It seems wrong (illiberal, perhaps) to frame the situation as beyond individual intent, when in fact it was the result of (relatively few!) individuals knowingly defecting...

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      2/ We might choose to call knowing defectors "evil", and this makes sense from one view of human nature (that "social defection" is itself an identity trait), but I ascribe to a view in which people want to believe they are good, and only perform "evil" acts out of desperation...

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism

      But some people will only ever defect, have no interest in cooperating. Some people have irreconcilable goals, such that no cooperation is possible. You can say those people aren’t “evil”, but that is what I choose to call people whose goals are destruction, pain, rape

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @0x49fa98

      I don't believe that these people exist: in general, I believe people want to "be the heroes of their own story" and that, if put in a more favorable situation, they would choose to cooperate. Something else, something psychological, is always upstream of desire to cause harm.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism

      This seems to imply there is some optimal psychology, or at least a vector in which psychology “ought” to point; in other words, it has a dependency on a notion of “goodness”. If there is goodness, then there is at least the possibility of evil.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @0x49fa98

      Yes, I am willing to define evil as "coordination problems with broadly negative outcomes" or else as something one can apply to an egregore. What I specifically reject is the notion that "some people are just evil" and maybe certain theological notions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. 0 HP Lovecraft, Eldritch and Void-Soaked‏ @0x49fa98 Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism

      I will grant that most people mean to do good, but two people may have irreconcilable notions of goodness, or disagree about priorities, or may simply be wrong. Some errors are unrecoverable, and some people are irredeemable You don’t need a metaphysical notion of evil, per se

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    8. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @0x49fa98

      I totally agree. The questions this raises are interesting: * how can an authority arbitrate between two differing notions of goodness? * what is the border b/w "I disagree with your ethics" and "you are evil"? * what does it mean to "recover from an error" sans metaphysics?

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    9. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      To elaborate, I see most claims of "X is evil" as saying something like "I think X is bad", but then attributing that judgment to God. I'm not against one holding a notion of badness or evil, but I think people should own their moral judgments.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      To clarify on "is this cultural relativism?" I was attempting to claim the following: 1) it is actions, not people, that are subject to moral judgment 2) it is individuals, not an agentic God, that makes moral judgments Could be theologically argued that (2) is relativist.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
      Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 16
      Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

      Suppose God's plan is self-evident and unambiguous. Then we would have a universal measure of good and evil. I invite you to read an excerpt from Shantaram. Simply food for thought:https://steemit.com/philosophy/@milinko/shantaram-theory-of-ultimate-complexity …

      3:16 PM - 16 Aug 2018
      • 1 Like
      • simpolism
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 16
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          I'll give it a read!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 16
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Quote: 'Anything that inhibits, impedes, or prevents this movement toward the Ultimate Complexity is evil. The wonderful thing about this definition of good and evil is that it is both objective and universally acceptable.’

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          Read a bit, like the same definition as in Asimov's "The Last Question" http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html … Also it's hard to go from moral principles such as that to something like "evil occurred at Rotherham"

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Yeah it's similar! What makes that bridge of reasoning "hard"?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Maybe "hard" is not what you mean. Asking because the quoted character was crime lord in Bombay. While profiting off other things he banished the porn industry on moral principle. He likely would describe the Rotherham perpetrators as evil w/o difficulty.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          there is no obvious logical argument

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Roald Teuben‏ @TeubenRoald Aug 17
          Replying to @simpolism @0x49fa98

          Rotherham was kind of complex. What's your take on Richard Ramirez?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. simpolism‏ @simpolism Aug 17
          Replying to @TeubenRoald @0x49fa98

          I mostly don't see how to get from "universal complexity" to "human life and relations"

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 13 more replies

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