only a top 10 character can beat top tiers such as kirby and game and watch when they di badly :O i think PT (ivy) fucks over low tiers but loses to every single top tier but snake/olimar (if you consider them top tier) ...we are going to argue about literally everything LOL
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plus fair past the percent where you get grab gives the same adv state you would get off of grab (double upair), and so does leaf. Leaf also early percents true combos into dash attack which gives a similar position/juggle situation as grab
i dont think grabbing airdodge/directional airdodge/specials/different attacks/emptyland spotdodge or jab on reaction is realistic at all the big problem is that its 12/13 frames and laggy, while the opponent doesnt have to fear anything else from grounded ivy
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and like, most top tier characters dont need to land a late aerial THEN make a big read, they just land an aerial into actual true combos
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while that is true yeah trainer gets more reward off of the read and generally can kill earlier sans a few examples like peach
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take advantage of the fact that people aren't typically scared of ivy on the ground! his dash attack is a great burst option for that very reason and my hitrate with it is exceptionally high with it.
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also if you want we could lab the scenario with you where i hit you with fair around 0-15 and i wait for a retaliating option and i grab it or upair it if they jump, they can really only aerial or directional airdodge to actually escape the situation and you can react to both
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