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Steve Sailer
Steve Sailer
Steve Sailer
@Steve_Sailer

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Steve Sailer

@Steve_Sailer

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unz.com/isteve
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    Steve Sailer‏ @Steve_Sailer Jul 25

    Steve Sailer Retweeted Caesar Ferraro

    I don't think too much of John Rawl's "Veil of Ignorance" theory of how to organize society because, personally, I'm anti-ignorance. But that's just me. Many other people seem to be pro-ignorance.https://twitter.com/FreeSoil20/status/1022323803408486400 …

    Steve Sailer added,

    Caesar Ferraro @FreeSoil20
    Replying to @dcwuser @DeGuerre_Nom @Steve_Sailer
    I do not disagree. It is obvious that Rawls's conclusion follows from his own moral intuitions. But my point is that to this day I have never seen a good argument against the veil of ignorance as a pretty good way to think about the foundations of a just society.
    8:41 PM - 25 Jul 2018
    • 11 Retweets
    • 94 Likes
    • threadbare bridge John Wilder Komrade J 2.0 Paul Stewie Griffith Virginia Dare W.B. Awesome Ph.D Dudley Morris 🌲hypernormalized👌
    15 replies 11 retweets 94 likes
      1. Steve Sailer‏ @Steve_Sailer Jul 27

        E.g., John Rawls himself was ignorant of how his 1969 "A Theory of Justice" would be used to justify mass immigration. But he lived and learned. By the 1990s, Rawls pointed out that immigration could undermine a country socially and environmentally: http://www.unz.com/isteve/john-rawls-immigration-restrictionist/ …pic.twitter.com/HgeuFQFqso

        3 replies 16 retweets 56 likes
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      1. Outsideness‏ @Outsideness Jul 26
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Starting with "Let's Pretend ..." is usually a bad sign.

        0 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Christopher DeGroot‏ @CEGrotius Jul 26
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        It wasn't long after Rawls published A Theory of Justice that his former student Thomas Nagel demonstrated the book's fatal weakness: that there is no veil of ignorance; so that people won't be inclined to adopt it.

        1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
      3. Joe Bingham‏ @teafortillerman Jul 26
        Replying to @CEGrotius @Steve_Sailer

        Also that the game is rigged by who gets to be behind the veil. You get very different results if black people and fetuses are behind the veil from what you get if you exclude them.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. SpookySaxon‏ @DrowsySaxon Jul 25
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Imagine you're behind the veil of ignorance, except you know you will be born into a population with an 85 IQ that lives side by side with a distinct population having a 100 IQ. What society would you choose? Free competition or gibs? The rational choice is obvious.

        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
      3. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @DrowsySaxon @Steve_Sailer

        Actually no veil you would not know, so you would like to have at least a basic level of gibs. Several people talking about the disaster of Rawls philosophy. There is no disaster in Denmark, Inceland, Norway or countries like that. And despite complaints the US government has

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @FreeSoil20 @DrowsySaxon @Steve_Sailer

        enough money to give even more gibs. The disaster is to use the veil to say that because you do not know if you would be born in Somalia, Afghanistan or Sweden, then Sweden should allow Somalia and Afghanistan to move to their country. Of course, the disaster is for the Swedes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @FreeSoil20 @DrowsySaxon @Steve_Sailer

        Immigration like much else is about trade-offs. Africans are certainly better off in Europe and the US, but the inhabitants of those countries are not better off with them. The most annoying thing about the left in the immigration debate is to pretend that the native population

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @FreeSoil20 @DrowsySaxon @Steve_Sailer

        does not lose. The right should not pretend that immigrants do not win.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation
      1. Christopher DeGroot‏ @CEGrotius Jul 26
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Rawls is one of the great instances of Nietzsche's insight about the general (unavowed) prejudice of philosophers. For, far from reflecting disinterestedness, Rawls' veil serves his underlying a priori agenda: his desire for equality of outcome--or some approximation of it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1.  🎃 💀Sid 💀 🎃‏ @SidPolitics Jul 26
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        From Plato onward, Western philosophy has carried the delusion that all, most, some, or a specific elite of people can become completely rational, disembodied spirits if only we'd think a little harder. The veil of ignorance is another example of that.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. darkecologist‏ @darkecologist Jul 25
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        i go the opposite direction and say it's not ignorant enough. actual empathy is nearly impossible. then the question transforms into "what if i was a middle-class person born into the wrong body?"

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Spectral‏ @SpectralTheorem Jul 25
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Granting Rawls’ premise, which I don’t, here’s an easy rebuttal: People fail to maximize payoffs in “betting” games because they’re irrationally risk-averse. So from behind Rawls’ “veil” they’d vote for a distribution of rights/goods that’s more egalitarian than the optimal one.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Spectral‏ @SpectralTheorem Jul 25
        Replying to @SpectralTheorem @Steve_Sailer

        @FreeSoil20 I admit I only thought about this for a minute, but I’m curious to hear your answer.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Spectral‏ @SpectralTheorem Jul 28
        Replying to @SpectralTheorem @Steve_Sailer @FreeSoil20

        @FreeSoil20 Henlo Sir,,, Are you getting my mails?? No response? You said you've NEVER seen a satisfactory rebuttal to Rawls.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        The point of the exercise is for you to be ignorant about your stance, otherwise how are we going to make you think beyond the stance you actually have? Not saying it's a practical way of organizing society, only one that I've always liked.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Caesar Ferraro‏ @FreeSoil20 Jul 25
        Replying to @FreeSoil20 @Steve_Sailer

        In practice I'm all in favor of deporting all the invaders and sterilizing everyone with IQ below 120. lol I'm just saying that I've always enjoyed Rawls's philosophy. And yes, the veil of ignorance justifies reasonable eugenics.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. The Hand and Foot‏ @VeryJonesVery Jul 27
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Rawlsianism is why Reason fails. Because you can reason yourself into accepting the most ridiculously unreasonable things as perfectly reasonable.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. David Simon‏ @DavidSimonSPG Jul 26
        Replying to @Steve_Sailer

        Plato and the cave and the noble lie.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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