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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Oh man. Where to begin with this one... First off, the AR-15 (as we know it) is a semi-automatic-only variant of the select fire (semi-automatic and fully-automatic) M-16. So, no, the AR-15 is not "far deadlier" than the M-16 since they're the same basic design.
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Joe Scarborough
@JoeNBC
Those suggesting the AR-15 was NOT developed as a weapon of war should read up on history. The AR-15 was developed as a military weapon to replace the M-14. Eugene Stoner designed it to be lighter and more lethal than the M-14. It was far deadlier than the M-16 used in Vietnam.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Replying to
@StephenGutowski
Other than certain parts of the trigger group, M-16 and AR-15 parts are interchangeable. Colt quite literally used older M-16 parts in the AR-15s they sold on the civilian market way back in 1963. Here's a good video on early AR-15s/M-16s:
youtube.com
Yeah, the AR15 is Now Becoming C&R Eligible
Given the status of the AR15 as the preeminent military rifle still today, it comes as a surprise to many people to learn just how old the gun really is. Civ...
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
The AR-15, or really the original AR-10, was designed to be very light. The concept was to use aircraft-grade materials to produce a light rifle. The idea that the AR-15, chambered for a much smaller 22 caliber round, is more "lethal" than the 30 caliber M-14 is highly dubious.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
In fact, the M-14's larger round was considered one of its main advantages over the AR-15/M-16 when they were initially tested by the Army. Lethality is something of a matter of opinion. It's just that the vast majority of people tend to believe the larger round is more lethal.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Scarborough is right that many historians believe the M-16, after its own problems that mostly stemmed from some bad logistical changes being made when it was first adopted, was a far superior combat rifle than the M-14 due mainly to its reduced weight and improved reliability.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
For some bizarre reason, though, he claims several times in his thread that the AR-15 is more deadly than the M-16 which is pretty bizarre since the AR-15 sold on the civilian market since 1963 is literally just a semi-automatic-only version of the M-16.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
It is true that the AR platform was originally designed by Eugene stoner with a military contract in mind. And it's true that a variant was eventually produced for military service (the M-16). This is also true for pretty much every kind of gun you can think of.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns, semi-automatic pistols, and revolvers have all been adopted by the US military and pretty much every military on the planet. Many designs popular on the civilian market today were originally designed for military contracts.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
The 1911 is an example of this. The M1A is a semi-automatic-only variant of the M-14. The Remington 870, America's most popular pump-action shotgun, is used by the US military. Variants of the bolt-action Remington 700, a popular hunting rifle, is used by the military. An so on.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
I would be interested to know what guns
@JoeNBC
owns because it's likely their basic design was created with a military contract in mind or they've been used by the military. I'd also be happy to calmly discuss this further with him. There is a lot of interesting history here.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Also, I want to note something important to
@JoeNBC
's point on military use. The select fire AR-15 as designed by Armalite became the select fire M-16 after being sold to Colt and adopted by the military. Colt then released the semi-automatic-only AR-15 for the civilian market.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
In
@JoeNBC
's thread, there's a conflation of the early select fire AR-15 design with the semi-automatic-only variant that was designed for civilian use and which has been sold in the US for 56 years. To my knowledge, the military has never adopted the semi-automatic-only AR-15.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
So, there is certainly some debate over exactly what weapons are protected arms under the Second Amendment. SCOTUS explicitly said in Heller than the select fire M-16 is not. It didn't say anything about the semi-automatic-only AR-15 and similar rifles.
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Given that the semi-automatic-only AR-15 was not submitted for consideration nor ever adopted by the military, it doesn't seem to be "specifically designed for military use."
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Stephen Gutowski
@StephenGutowski
Heller is much more of a compromise ruling than people realize. It seems tailored to overturn DC's handgun ban without wiping out most other federal and state gun laws like the National Firearms Act or Gun Control Act.
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