He didn't have to chase the alliance across the bay to claim a home for the orcs. I am one of the biggest orc fans out there, but there is no world in which the first and second wars don't sit squarely on the horde's shoulders.
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The modern horde's heroes aren't viewed as villains by the perspective of the storytelling. The old horde and Dohammer at the time absolutely were. Even the old horde that still exists are still villains in the story's eyes.
Varok Saurfang was apart of the old Horde and yet they did a tremendous job of portraying him not as that. I don't even understand what we're arguing about anymore.
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I was referring to the "old horde" faction that still exists, not orcs who were in the old horde.
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My point here is that from a "this is a story being written out about a world", not from a factional perspective, the horde and Orgrim were villains for the duration of the first and second wars, and actively made th decision to change and become something more than that.
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They were the aggressors in a war without cause with the stated goal of global extermination and world domination. It doesn't get more villainous thqn that. But they redeemed themselves and ar now integral heroes of the setting
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