Skoll Shorties

And that's the thing. I think most people don't look at the people who actually get the redemption as villains anymore And that sort of clouds the perspective. But these people have committed atrocities oh, they just decided they wanted to change.

I think if you look at Orgrim with a lense from the Alliance perspective I suppose you could see him as a villain who changed. But from a Horde perspective, he was never a villain and just changed how the Horde was run. In a lot of ways Orgrim was the start of a new Horde.

There was zero justification for the first and second war. From any outside perspective, the horde were the villains in Warcraft 1 and 2. The orcs who didn't want to be villains got kicked out

They realistically didn't have any choice in the manner at that point. They were slaves to the Legion and were lied to. It was only because of the fact Orgrim never drank could he aid in getting his people out from their shackles. It's why Orgrim is viewed as a good Warchief.

He still actively led a slaughter campaign against the races of azeroth. And that is, as you said, -without- the demon blood.

He did his with purpose and it wasn't out of vile action either. Orcs & Humans have both gone to war with each other for ages & none of them are villains for it except from the perspective of the other side. Orgrim went to war with the Humans for their planet as theirs was gone.

He didn't have to chase the alliance across the bay to claim a home for the orcs. I am one of the biggest orc fans out there, but there is no world in which the first and second wars don't sit squarely on the horde's shoulders.

Just because there is some mental justification doesn't make them not the villain. Every villain believes they are justified.