Skoll Shorties

i don't think she ever intended to win the war, just cause death, so i'd agree that the horde/sylvanas lost the war, but in the end her goals were met, she got the death that was needed

She still really didn't win. All of her plans that she tried to achieve went up in smoke during BfA. The only plan that really won out was people dying -- which is almost a guarantee during a war.

Look, I understand that you're a biased character hater, this is your right, but don't completely distort the facts. Winning is about achieving your goals. Sylvanas achieved her main goals in the BFA. This is called winning.

I used to like Sylvanas and even if I don't like her anymore it's important to note when she's lost and when she's won. I just said what she was successful at. It's made pretty clear she still lost A TON in BfA and the 4th War in general as its Warchief.

If you think that way,then Saurfang lost all his battles. But this is not the case. He lost the duel, but achieved his MAIN goal. He won his war. Exactly the same with Sylvanas.

So you're arguing her main goal was to be exposed by Saurfang and then have to flee rather than remain the dictator of one of the two most powerful factions on the planet? This is what people talk about when they bring up pretzel logic.

Her main goal was to gain enough strength to break the border between the worlds of the living and the dead. At the BFA stage. And she had achieved her goal. Main goals.

Where did they state that it was because of Teldrassil or BfA that she hit this arbitrary power level you're now pretending was her goal all along? Because she was pretty broken in Legion too. Actually never mind I'm out, I'm going to spare myself the fanboy defense arguments.