Skoll Shorties

There's definitely a difference between surviving a winning. Winning means you accomplished something or achieved something. Sure she accomplished in gathering enough souls to take on the LK but she still failed to rid the Alliance and stop a Rebellion. She failed her faction.

But did she though? Imo it was pretty clear that she wanted everyone against her, from how she handled Saurfang situation from the start, to Derek, to baine. She wanted the horde/ally to join against her and I'd say she won because she got what she needed out of the war

Her remaining as Warchief would have allowed her to kill way, way more people than she would have otherwise. We know for a fact that she was pissed and surprised by the challenge of mak'gora. She wanted a big fight at Orgrimmar to kill more people. She failed.

"The Dark Lady anticipated this as a possible outcome. She has prepared a contingency plan to deal with it accordingly" "Saurfang's ill-considered challenge may have ended the war prematurely, but it doesn't matter now" she definitely wasnt surprised or pissed

Sylvanas' entire character is playing things close to her chest. She doesn't want to show or admit that she failed. She succeeded in escaping, gathering enough souls to take on the LK and shattering the Helm. She didn't succeed in the 4th War, however.

i don't think she ever intended to win the war, just cause death, so i'd agree that the horde/sylvanas lost the war, but in the end her goals were met, she got the death that was needed

She still really didn't win. All of her plans that she tried to achieve went up in smoke during BfA. The only plan that really won out was people dying -- which is almost a guarantee during a war.

Look, I understand that you're a biased character hater, this is your right, but don't completely distort the facts. Winning is about achieving your goals. Sylvanas achieved her main goals in the BFA. This is called winning.