Michael Shellenberger on Twitter: "@MDN_Energy @MidiPatch Nitrogen declined 75% and ammonia also declined significantly. Yes, there was a modest ammonia increase from 2013-2017, but it appears that can be dealt with through technical fixes. Help me understand the case for a 30% reduction in livestock. That seems rather radical." / Twitter

Jul 11, 2022

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Netherlands: apparently, you are not well informed at all. (I live in Belgium, 20 miles from the border with the NL, and read 3 NL papers). Correct info in English:

reuters.com

Dutch farmers protest plan to curb nitrogen pollution

Thousands of farmers were gathering in a village near the centre of the Netherlands on Wednesday to protest a government plan to curb nitrogen pollution, many travelling by tractor from all corners...

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It's behind a pay wall. What's the main takeaway? Where is Shellenberger wrong?

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- I made a login, to read Reuters' (very good!) articles. -

@ShellenbergerMD

's mistake is that his opinion is ideological and ignores the scientific facts in the NL. - A good explanation, from a main Dutch news site - I hope the English translation is OK: nos-nl.translate.goog/collectie/1390

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I read the article but still don't see where Shellenberger has facts wrong. Netherlands has the biggest live stock production in the EU, of course they have lots ammonium pollution.

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That's the point. You cannot go on polluting. Water quality suffers. Nature - that is scarce - suffers. Air quality suffers. That is a problem in the NL. And in Flanders, where I live. Causes: too much NOx from traffic and especially too much livestock in a small area. /1

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Water pollution: www-vmm-be.translate.goog/nieuws/archief Nature: www-vmm-be.translate.goog/lucht/stikstof Air and nature: vmm.be/lucht/evolutie ➡️ We do not comply with EU *standards* for water, for nitrogen deposition in nature reserves, etc. No problem for you, but it is for me - I live here.

vmm.be

Hoe evolueert de luchtkwaliteit in Vlaanderen?

De uitstoot in de lucht van verschillende stoffen neemt verder af en ook de luchtkwaliteit verbetert. Hierdoor daalt de gezondheidsimpact door luchtvervuiling, maar deze impact is nog steeds niet te...

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Nobody is contesting the negative effects of nitrogen. But reducing nitrogen in NL will cause production to go elsewhere, where the amount of nitrogen per produce will be much higher.

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The effects of harmful nitrogen are local, not global like e.g. greenhouse gases. In the NL and in Flanders (Belgium), due to too high emissions, acceptable limits are exceeded. Even if the amount of harmful nitrogen per produce is higher elsewhere, that's NP if OK wrt limits.

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Michael Shellenberger

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Everybody agrees we should reduce pollution, but that's what farmers have been doing for decades. Why not work with farmers to keep making incremental reductions rather than demanding they reduce their livestock by 30%? I'm asking genuinely.

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Did you read, and understand 😉, the complete article in which that graph is used,

@ShellenbergerMD

? The article gives the answer to your question... "The nitrogen problem is really Dutch, explained in eight graphs", nos-nl.translate.goog/collectie/1390

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Michael Shellenberger

@ShellenbergerMD

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@MDN_Energy

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@MidiPatch

Nitrogen declined 75% and ammonia also declined significantly. Yes, there was a modest ammonia increase from 2013-2017, but it appears that can be dealt with through technical fixes. Help me understand the case for a 30% reduction in livestock. That seems rather radical.

4:21 PM · Jul 12, 2022

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This was a short spike, because government let loose some restrictions to cow farmers, already the last 5 years you see a downwards trend. All the data now used by the government is 2017-2018, so we are already lower. Also input data is proven wrong. NOS = government media outlet

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1/ The point is precisely ammonia. Ammonia emissions (from livestock) can be reduced by technological means, but that is not enough any more. ➡️Nitrogen deposition in the NL has been too high for decades, and now “the nitrogen bath is overflowing”. See also, from the NOS-article: