I'm actually a great fan of yours @SamHarrisOrg, but @robertwrighter is correct - you aren't perfectly objective, you are subject to the same tribalism we ALL are. You breached the simple Left/Right tribes, but haven't escaped tribalism. You have just helped create a new one.
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Having said this I genuinely hope you continue your work. I still believe your podcast is one of the best out there. My only hope is you continue engaging with people who disagree with you, and yet can still engage in civil debate.
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I fully agree with you there, but still, what*is* his tribe?
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What form would an answer to that question take? Like a list of all of the people in his tribe?
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A tribe would be "white men who do science" or "critics of religion" or whatever. If you're accused of tribalism, you gotta be able to know what tribe you're being part of.
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I doubt I could nail the definition perfectly, but I'll try: mostly white men, mostly atheist/skeptics, who abhor all religion but particular emphasis on Islam, anti-terrorism but soft on militaristic over-reach, pro free speech, skeptical of white privilege/institutional racism.
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And if you think I'm trying to "bash" that tribe, I'm not. Every tribe has strengths and weaknesses, insights and blind spots.
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Lastly, the lines between tribes are blurry. You're not either "all in" or "all out." Some days, on certain subjects, I feel like I'm a part of
@SamHarrisOrg's tribe. Other days, not so much. - 8 more replies
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@robertwrighter yours is 5th piece whitewashing all exchange between@SamHarrisOrg &me on Islam. ‘Islam’ example you used is out of date. Your “cognitive bias” made you exclude Sam’s most recent view here, when he shifted his “tribal” position.Pattern: I don’t fit your narrative -
Maajid, I'm trying to understand your criticism here. Wright very clearly notes that the 'Islam' example dates back to Harris' 1st book. You call this 'whitewashing'; is it possible that Wright just didn't know about Sam's change? Or that he didn't deem it relevant to his point?
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The lack of energy expended by a journalist to verify that his point isn’t out of date, by checking the latest publication of the only Muslim affiliate noted in Weiss’ piece (which happened to be a dialogue on Islam with Sam) is textbook confirmation bias (of a whitewashing form)
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And an example is “relevant to the point” of it renders the point null and void, for FFS!
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If the point is to show Sam is susceptible to bias, it's not null & void at all. Even if he's overcome this particular bias (a good thing), it still shows that he's not immune. I agree it would have been better for Wright to note this. But that doesn't mean it's whitewashing.
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1) it *specifically* proves a change in his “tribal” position if confronted with evidence 2) it renders Wright’s 1st major eg wrong 3) I happen to be only Muslim associate to
#IDW but I don’t fit his narrative 4) it’s our last book&so easy to find 5) that’s textbook whitewashing -
It shows Sam can overcome bias, not that he's immune to it. Both can be true. And Wright's story isn't about you, or the IDW in general, but about Sam (and tribal psychology in general.) I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think maybe there's a more charitable reading here.
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Tribalism is one’s inability to see one’s bias. NOT one’s ability to *correct* an existing bias if shown it. Using my eg proves *the opposite*. I KNOW I’m not the point of the piece,I’m the obvious eg whose inclusion weakens piece’s central claim. You’re defending a glaring error
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Finally a tribe I can subscribe to.

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The "intellectual dark web" IS a tribe. It consists of primarily center left/center right individuals rallying around common points and claiming superiority over anyone on the outside.
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It's odd to think that the people listed above, along with folks like Rubin, Peterson, Shapiro, etc. could all be united by... what exactly? Criticism of college campuses? Feminism? SJW's? Promotion of free speech? It's a tribe. That's the fire you all gather around.
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Large swaths of people who have a dislike for tribal thinking and champion being individuals are themselves tribal and a collective.... woof.
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Peterson, Shapiro, Harris, etc., all circulate each other's platforms and refuse doing shows or events with people who have coherent critiques/arguments against them (e.g. Pakman, Seder, CTH, Eiynah, etc.). Not all tribes are equal, but this group is not outside of tribalism.
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If you truly believe
@jordanbpeterson and Sam refuse to do shows and events with people who have genuine critiques against them, you have not been paying attention. And you’re conflating ‘tribalism’ with ‘judgement’ which are two different things -
Dan, I've been a close follower of Sam for over a decade and a follower of Peterson since before he got big from JRE. I am paying attention. This was a blind spot for me for a long time. This group props up strawmen to maintain their influence and they dismiss their best critics.
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Who are their best critics? Greenwald? Reza?
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No, those two are awful. Check out
@NiceMangos or@SamSeder - 4 more replies
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