At minimum, engaging on this topic conveys the (false) sense that I’m interested in racial differences. Every minute spent addressing the dishonesty of one’s critics digs the hole deeper.
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Klein is reasonable actually and you're the one engaging in character assassination
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I felt that way for the first few replies, until Sam pointed out how the actual content published did not align with the faux-gracious replies.
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The deeper you get into the weeds, the more justified
@SamHarrisOrg's exasperation becomes -
lol no. Ezra Klein was almost comically patient with that big baby
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Being cordial and being intellectually honest aren’t the same thing. A lot of people are getting lost in the weeds of a “who crafted the calmer email” contest.
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I'm not that. Klein had perfectly reasonable arguments on top of being polite. Harris threw a temper tantrum and made no sense. Accusing Klein of libel and gaslighting. Absurd accusations.
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“Harris threw a temper tantrum”. Again, who wrote the calmer email contest. I agree Ezra obfuscates the issue and moves the goal post very professionally.
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Listen to the whole podcast, read the original Vox piece, then Haier’s piece, then the newest vox piece, and then the emails. Enlightenment is just around the corner!
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It takes hours of reading/listening (hours most who will see this email exchange didn’t have to spare) to see why your anger is warranted, Sam. Klein is savvy and appears to have anticipated his emails being published from the start. He came away looking like the good guy...
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His finally agreeing to a podcast on the topic of conversation (not science of IQ) was a bluff you failed to call. That medium would have been easier—not harder—for you to parse the bullshit and and keep him from evading your points/questions. But it’s probably too late now.
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You’re interested in difficult conversations. But Sam, that can’t just mean difficult topics with easy interlocutors. Some conversations are difficult because of who’s having them. It’s not boring—we all wish were better at *those*, and we could learn along with you. Please try.
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I really hope Sam takes this to heart. I couldnt imagine better advice for his podcast.
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Sam I listened to that entire pod and I got the exact same feeling as Ezra Klein. The fact that you had a conversation on race and IQ and barely even MENTIONED structural racism is baffling. Your response is childish.
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Count me in agreement here... Sam, I've read several of your books, and I've listened to every episode of your show... But I think you're so interested in the meta-argument about untouchable discourse topics that you've been willing to stand on the wrong side of this one.
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Sadly, I'm also in this camp. Sam, I've followed your work and have utmost respect for it, but the entire arc with Murray and Klein feels forced. Worse, it feels you're more interested in unearthing pariahs than handling an obvious sensitive issue with the context it deserves.
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Why aren't you upset about the conclusions regarding Asian IQ? Why is it just the black/white difference that upsets you? Think about that and then re-read the exchange.
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Because it’s more often instilled in us from a very young age as Americans to emphasize and feel sorry for blacks. We don’t do this same thing for Jews or the Irish, who has an awful time in terms of their history in this world. Only blacks. It’s sad. Why not everyone?
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Americans of African descent have a unique history - although I take your point that so does everyone else to an extent. The danger is that 'victim' status has a generally negative impact on individual self-esteem?
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