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SamHarrisOrg's profile
Sam Harris
Sam Harris
Sam Harris
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@SamHarrisOrg

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Sam HarrisVerified account

@SamHarrisOrg

Author of The End of Faith, The Moral Landscape, Waking Up, and other bestselling books published in over 20 languages. Host of the Waking Up podcast.

samharris.org
Joined February 2010

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    Sam Harris‏Verified account @SamHarrisOrg Jan 11

    We pull ourselves up by our bootstraps everywhere in science and philosophy. We don't justify the claim that events have causes, or that some memories are veridical, or that 2 + 9 = 11, and we need not justify the claim that pointless misery is bad and worth avoiding.

    8:30 AM - 11 Jan 2018
    • 347 Retweets
    • 1,916 Likes
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    209 replies 347 retweets 1,916 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Hamilton Davis‏ @theholoscene Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        The best analogy you have used on this topic is health and medicine. We bring value judgments into our notions of what it means to be healthy. Health is a relative and subjective standard, but we can still have an objective science of medicine that informs it. Same with ethics.

        2 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
      3. Hamilton Davis‏ @theholoscene Jan 11
        Replying to @theholoscene @SamHarrisOrg

        And if someone shows up at the oncology conference and says having cancer is a sign of good health, he isn't invited back the next year...

        1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Adrian Bowyer‏ @adrianbowyer Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        Actually, mathematicians do have to justify the claim that 2 + 9 = 11. Whitehead and Russell spent 300 pages proving 1+1=2...

        3 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      3. Tyler Zeller‏ @TylerMZeller Jan 11
        Replying to @adrianbowyer @SamHarrisOrg

        It's important to note that these guys were trolling. There are many ways to arrive at definitions for addition (or even numbers) in math in less than a few sentences https://math.stackexchange.com/a/15905 . However, humans added numbers together way before there was any "justification" for it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Stephen Moore‏ @80smm80 Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        Wouldn’t someone have to know the future in order to categorize something as “pointless”?

        9 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
      3. Luke Smith‏ @lukegraemesmith Jan 11
        Replying to @80smm80 @SamHarrisOrg

        Yep. From the perspective of the unknowing ever-present, it is an enormous claim frivolously made.

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Scott W.‏ @ScottDollaBillz Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        "pointless misery is bad" is a tautology, not an insight. What experiences are bad is the core question that has still not been addressed.

        5 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
      3. Regan Brewer ‏ @ReganMetal Jan 11
        Replying to @ScottDollaBillz @SamHarrisOrg

        G.E Moore's open question argument applies to definitions of Bad/Good. He states, there is no singular definition of good or bad because the statement "This is bad" requires a second statement explaining why. A tautology such as 'you should avoid this because it is bad' is .....

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Regan Brewer ‏ @ReganMetal Jan 11
        Replying to @ReganMetal @ScottDollaBillz @SamHarrisOrg

        Pretty useless as a foundation for morality. A question that only serves to circle itself is no help to anyone. What Harris needs are axioms, not tautologies.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Adrian Iliopoulos‏ @theQSLmind Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        The evangelists of pointless misery have probably skin in the game of misery. They are either the companies of antidepressants or people who use victimization as a tool for favorable treatment. There is absolutely no logic behind pointless misery.

        2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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      4. ∃𝑋[∅∈𝑋∧∀𝑦(𝑦∈𝑋⇒𝑦∪{𝑦}∈𝑋)]‏ @_thls_ Jan 11
        Replying to @ProbingOmega @theQSLmind @SamHarrisOrg

        er we all have skin in the game of reality making pharmaceuticals isn't wrong, of course it can be done wrong having motives isn't wrong, of course you can have bad motives personal benefit, lel, such evil if all you're saying is that people are cunts then I agree

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Jacy Reese‏Verified account @jacyreese Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        But one could say that "events have causes" and other "is" claims all have explanatory value that this moral "ought" claim lacks. The "many experiences really and truly suck" experience is perfectly compatible with a world with mind-independent moral truths and one without.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Jacy Reese‏Verified account @jacyreese Jan 11
        Replying to @jacyreese @SamHarrisOrg

        There's a fair bit of discussion of this topic in the #EffectiveAltruism community (e.g. https://casparoesterheld.com/2016/01/25/mathematical-versus-moral-truth/ …), given its importance for finding the most effective ways to improve the far future.

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. Jonathan Aron‏ @JAron94 Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        Then you don't need to derive an 'ought' from an 'is'. Your original 'ought' claim is taken to be self-evidently true, and any other ought claims you make rely on this claim in conjunction with 'is' claims (and possibly some other derived 'ought' claims)

        0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
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      1. Martin Pukownik‏ @pukawaka Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        The problem is meaningless labels that don’t fit reality. Is falling in love pointless misery or the apex of happiness?

        0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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      1. Jonathan Livengood‏ @Prof_Livengood Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        All of these have, at various times, been challenged and given justifications. Whether one accepts the justifications is a separate question. But it's just not true that in science and philosophy we have axioms that stand in no need of justification or that cannot be questioned.

        0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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