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SamHarrisOrg's profile
Sam Harris
Sam Harris
Sam Harris
Verified account
@SamHarrisOrg

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Sam HarrisVerified account

@SamHarrisOrg

Author of The End of Faith, The Moral Landscape, Waking Up, and other bestselling books published in over 20 languages. Host of the Waking Up podcast.

samharris.org
Joined February 2010

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    Sam Harris‏Verified account @SamHarrisOrg Jan 11

    IS/OUGHT Certain states of pointless misery are possible—i.e. extreme suffering from which no good ever comes—how can we avoid these experiences? Saying we “ought” to avoid them adds nothing to the import of the phrase “pointless misery.”

    7:54 AM - 11 Jan 2018
    • 81 Retweets
    • 571 Likes
    • Vegan Heart Raqib Ali Jeremy Kyle Garcia Austin Kaliya Krsna Rivet Matt! (Please Clap) Salgado Steven Gussman Ji Won Park Chris Dellaporta
    103 replies 81 retweets 571 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Salty In Arizona  🇺🇸 🌵‏ @AZSaltRebel Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        Sometimes I worry I’m not smart enough to follow you, I had read that twice. 😬

        4 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
      3. Frank R Castillo‏ @FrankRCastillo Jan 11
        Replying to @AZSaltRebel @rocksaltmetal @SamHarrisOrg

        Intelligent people often ask themselves if they're smart enough. Be worried if you didn't feel you could be smarter/had something to learn.

        0 replies 0 retweets 28 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Brandon McNeice‏ @brandonmcneice Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        That's a linguistic issue. It's because pointless already smuggled in an implied ought.

        0 replies 1 retweet 22 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Teodor Zhechev‏ @tzhechev Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        If you say 'pointless,' you've already evaluated them based on your existing values. To have a point, a desired state, you need desire to begin with. Only a desired state can produce an "ought," but scientific facts can't produce a desire.

        7 replies 1 retweet 31 likes
      3. Alex Murillo‏ @alex_amurillo Jan 11
        Replying to @tzhechev @SamHarrisOrg

        This really does seem to be a mental block for poor Sam. Odd considering how brilliant he is.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Joshua Wedel‏ @joshua_wedel Jan 11
        Replying to @alex_amurillo @tzhechev @SamHarrisOrg

        IS/OUGHT Sam *ought* to quit riding this hobby-horse because he *IS* embarrassing himself.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Alex Murillo‏ @alex_amurillo Jan 11
        Replying to @joshua_wedel @tzhechev @SamHarrisOrg

        Hahaha gold. It’s as if he thinks this hasn’t been brought up in, oh...to be conservative...the last three centuries.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Joshua Wedel‏ @joshua_wedel Jan 11
        Replying to @alex_amurillo @tzhechev @SamHarrisOrg

        if he’s right, he wrote the most revolutionary and important book of moral philosophy in history.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation
      1. Für immer Punk‏ @j_hansson Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        I'm still not convinced. Like others have said, you already evaluated this suffering as pointless. Furthermore...you say that nothing *good* can come from it. How do you evaluate good w/out the ought? This is so confusing.

        0 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. uzalu‏ @uzalu_ Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        maybe you've already mixed the 'ought' into your premise?

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Brandon McNeice‏ @brandonmcneice Jan 11
        Replying to @SamHarrisOrg

        Most people aren't refuting your conclusion, they're just insisting you recognize the move you made. Asserting that human suffering is bad and we ought to mitigate it is imminently reasonable, but it's still an imposed value.

        1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
      3. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @brandonmcneice @SamHarrisOrg

        Every 'is' comes from an imposed value, that's Sams argument. But somehow we accept this in medicine, for example, but not in morality. Our notion of health is axiomatic in many ways, but no one uses this is/ought argument to imply that science has nothing to say about medicine

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Brandon McNeice‏ @brandonmcneice Jan 11
        Replying to @TheDrunkenPiper @SamHarrisOrg

        In medicine, the value of human life is accepted axiomatically. That's a good thing, but it's still an imposition of value that doesn't come from any facts. Every "is" does not come from an implied ought.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @brandonmcneice @SamHarrisOrg

        That's my point, and the same point Sam has made in The Moral Landscape. We do this same imposition of value in every field, so why not in morality? Every truth clame comes with associated values, like logic, respect for evidence, etc

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Brandon McNeice‏ @brandonmcneice Jan 11
        Replying to @TheDrunkenPiper @SamHarrisOrg

        I'm not saying we can't make the same imposition in morality. All anyone is saying is that we need to recognize that's what we're doing.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @brandonmcneice @SamHarrisOrg

        I agree

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @MajeakaNdanga @SamHarrisOrg

        You are mising the point. Even if there were such an entity, the only way for it to determine values is if we assigned value to it over everything else in the first place. So it's the same. Why should we assigne value to its word if not to mitigate suffering of conscious beings?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @TheDrunkenPiper @SamHarrisOrg

        When believers privilege Gods word over the Devil's (for example) they are thinkig about future suffering or reward

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Tweet unavailable
      5. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @MajeakaNdanga @SamHarrisOrg

        Those aren't the only two possibilities. First, you have to prove there is a God. Good luck with that... Sam's argument is for knowledge and honest inquiry. If that should reveal God's existence so be it, but values would still be imposed by us

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Drunken Piper‏ @TheDrunkenPiper Jan 11
        Replying to @TheDrunkenPiper @SamHarrisOrg

        For instance, we could find out that the only 'gods' we encounter are all shitty ones... then it would be very unwise to follow their will just because they are gods. And we would make that judgement based on how much more suffering they could impose on us

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation

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