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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @das_kube and

      Much more of the standard library could have been available for lower-level use. There could have been a collections and io library usable without those design decisions, etc. It was a very explicit design decision to have such lackluster low-level stdlib and ecosystem support.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. whitequark‏ @whitequark Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @das_kube and

      Rust gained support for fallible allocation recently.https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2116 …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @whitequark @das_kube and

      Not a fan of how any of this stuff ended up at all. :\ Seriously regret wasting so much time contributing to the Rust compiler / standard library now. It was so close to ending up as a great language for low-level use but the standard libraries missed the boat completely.

      3 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
    4. Jakub Jirutka‏ @JakubJirutka Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @whitequark and

      I feel your pain. I was very excited from Rust, but after experiencing it from the position of Alpine package maintainer, I’m very disappointed, mainly because of Cargo. I wish someone took great concepts from Rust and implement it with minimalism and correctness in mind.

      1 reply 2 retweets 4 likes
    5. whitequark‏ @whitequark Mar 30
      Replying to @JakubJirutka @CopperheadOS and

      What are your issues with Cargo?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jakub Jirutka‏ @JakubJirutka Mar 30
      Replying to @whitequark @CopperheadOS and

      Cargo is bloated everything-but-kitchen-sink. It introduces double chick-or-egg problem to Rust – you need cargo and rustc to build cargo and the same to build rustc.They don’t even provide static cargo for bootstrapping.Using git as pkgs index is horrible idea, it’s slow as hell

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    7. Jakub Jirutka‏ @JakubJirutka Mar 30
      Replying to @JakubJirutka @whitequark and

      They made Cargo an inherent part of Rust, but it’s being developed as some hipster JS project.

      2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
    8. Jeff Waugh‏ @jdub Mar 30
      Replying to @JakubJirutka @RichFelker and

      Cargo arrived after Rust, incremental improvement is totally a thing, and the distro package maintainer experience is understandably not the #1 priority. Try to be fair and kind.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
      Replying to @jdub @JakubJirutka and

      Having an official package manager for a language is just bad policy. It's making the language into a product, not a language.

      3 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    10. bounded model shaker‏ @das_kube Mar 30
      Replying to @RichFelker @jdub and

      Not every language has the luxury of being the official language of OS, like C on linux. I find package managers incredibly useful, because my community doesn't have the workpower to package every lib for every OS under the sun.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
      Replying to @das_kube @jdub and

      You don't have to. Whoever is packaging apps for the dist will also package dependency libs or static link them, & devs can just grab & build the source for libs they want.

      5:50 PM - 30 Mar 2018
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @das_kube and

          Overall though apps should be using very few libs. Stdlib should cover most basic data structure needs. Without huge resources it's impossible to assess correctness of more than a handful of libs.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @das_kube and

          That's a value judgement, not an objective one. Rust's stdlib covers basic data structure needs and there's still enormous value in fine-grained packaging (though I would never go as far as what happens in npm, or admittedly, in some domains in Rust, too.)

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Jakub Jirutka‏ @JakubJirutka Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @das_kube and

          No, this is not how it works. Applications often have dozens or hundreds dependencies when we count transitive. It's totally insane and error prone to repackage them all, duplicate versions resolution etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @JakubJirutka @das_kube and

          Apps with that any deps are simply unfixably buggy. Even if a randomly chosen lib has 95% chance of being usably nonbuggy, 100 have < 1% chance.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Leo Unglaub‏ @LeoUnglaub Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @JakubJirutka and

          i fully agree with that statement, but sadly things like browsers, desktop environments, window managers, ... don't come <50 dependencies anymore. I know its bad, but sadly also the reallity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @LeoUnglaub @JakubJirutka and

          Then fix it. Don't model new ecosystems after the badness of existing ones.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @LeoUnglaub and

          FWIW the current situation is somewhat distorted by Xorg's ridiculous overfactoring. ~22/55 libs my xfwm4 uses are just a bunch of core X components.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. bounded model shaker‏ @das_kube Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @jdub and

          Grabing and building the source files for libs, by hand, is like installing packages for your OS by hand. I don't want to extract archives and find how to build for 30 or 50 libraries…

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @das_kube @jdub and

          Ecosystems where you need 30-40 libs for an app are ecosystems where the apps are hopelessly buggy.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. whitequark‏ @whitequark Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @das_kube and

          [citation needed]

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. End of conversation

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