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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 29
      Replying to @bofh453

      Return (or throw, if that's your idiom) the error to the caller, leaving any mutable objects being manipulated in consistent (preferably unmodified) state.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Peter Barfuss 𒀱‏ @bofh453 Mar 29
      Replying to @RichFelker

      And 99% of the time the caller will either abort or ignore the error and SIGSEGV anyway.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 29
      Replying to @bofh453

      N levels back up, maybe. Unless it's stateless/contains no valuable state, or unless it's utter crap, not without first dumping a recovery file of some sort.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. bounded model shaker‏ @das_kube Mar 29
      Replying to @RichFelker @bofh453

      Or you can write rust with nostd, and no allocator (bring your own). But what would you do anyway if you `vec.push(x)` and somehow there isn't enough ram? How would you signal the error in a way that makes sense to the caller of `push`?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @das_kube @RichFelker @bofh453

      The push method could return `Ok(())` when it succeeds and `Err(x)` when it fails. Since `Result<T, U>` is marked #[must_use], it forces the caller to handle the error case. Rust as a language is well-suited to writing low-level, robust code. The non-core stdlib is the issue.

      3 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
    6. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @das_kube and

      Much more of the standard library could have been available for lower-level use. There could have been a collections and io library usable without those design decisions, etc. It was a very explicit design decision to have such lackluster low-level stdlib and ecosystem support.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. whitequark‏ @whitequark Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @das_kube and

      Rust gained support for fallible allocation recently.https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/pull/2116 …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @whitequark @das_kube and

      Not a fan of how any of this stuff ended up at all. :\ Seriously regret wasting so much time contributing to the Rust compiler / standard library now. It was so close to ending up as a great language for low-level use but the standard libraries missed the boat completely.

      3 replies 2 retweets 6 likes
    9. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @whitequark and

      Aborting on OOM makes complete sense at the application layer. For example, Android forces applications to do everything with transactions and to support being killed / respawned at any point without losing state. That's a good model and it fits perfectly into that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
      Replying to @CopperheadOS @whitequark and

      It absolutely does not. It means losing valuable work/data. Android apps do not honor the contract they're supposed to because it's hard to do.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
      Replying to @RichFelker @CopperheadOS and

      YouTube even loses your scroll position in a huge list if you switch apps, without any kill. Nothing reliably keeps data across getting killed.

      5:59 AM - 30 Mar 2018
      • 1 Like
      • axleyjc
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @whitequark and

          Activities are killed and spawned again simply by rotating your screen.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker and

          You don't really know if an app is being killed when it's in the background. That's probably what's happening to YouTube for you. It still being in the least of recent apps doesn't mean it wasn't killed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker and

          So sure, some apps are buggy. If the YouTube app is wrapping web content, the reason would probably be that it's a lot harder to do this for content in a WebView vs. native content with proper support for it. Browsers make it hard to restore scroll position, etc.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker and

          Using transactions for actual data is easy, as is saving content the user was working on. It's definitely harder to restore the *view* to exactly how it was after dealing with an activity respawn but that's not lost data, it's an inconvenience.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @whitequark and

          Transactions are great but hard to use for editing a giant image or other tasks with high data volume.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @RichFelker @whitequark and

          They do it though, because they literally get killed when you rotate the screen, change locale, etc. so they don't have much choice. On Android, the app being told to save state and then being killed at any time isn't exceptional but rather the regular way things happen.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker and

          The way they handle killing apps in the background is literally the same process that happens when you simply rotate the screen. It asks the active activity to save a bundle (i.e. state of the view, unsaved data) and then passes it to the activity again when it's restored.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Jakub Jirutka‏ @JakubJirutka Mar 30
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker and

          Aha, that’s why I’m regularly losing what I wrote in whatever app on Android! Indeed great user experience…

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. End of conversation

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