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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21

      Thread on images on the blockchain: As long as there is user-provided data, systems that store that data can be commandeered to store what is being called "illegal content." True for Google Docs, true for blockchains.

      4 replies 75 retweets 219 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
      Replying to @el33th4xor

      This is either ignorance or willful misrepresentation. The key difference is that on a blockchain they can't be removed, ever, without invalidating everything that follows in the chain.

      1 reply 2 retweets 5 likes
    3. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
      Replying to @RichFelker

      Emin Gün Sirer Retweeted Emin Gün Sirer

      Not quite: https://twitter.com/el33th4xor/status/976544202367684609?s=19 … If you download from the most recent block backwards, you can skip downloading any data whose hash and side effects you know.

      Emin Gün Sirer added,

      Emin Gün SirerVerified account @el33th4xor
      Technically, it's actually easy to agree to excise unwanted parts of a blockchain. Nodes can store the hash and side effects of a transaction, without its content.
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
      Replying to @el33th4xor

      This is an implementation detail and may be true about some blockchains, but not all, and seems to be trivial to bypass by storing the evil data in the side effects or any metadata that necessarily has to be kept.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
      Replying to @RichFelker

      If your point is "it will always be possible to encode steg messages on any storage medium," we agree, see the first message in thread. If you are worried that blockchains will be commandeered to transmit vile images on a scale to cause societal problems, we disagree.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
      Replying to @el33th4xor

      It's neither. It's that an append-only ledger writable by anyone carries inherent risk that any user/participant will necessarily be forced to possess things whose possession carries penalty of imprisonment.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
      Replying to @RichFelker @el33th4xor

      This has absolutely no relation to hiding evil data in non-blockchain storage; in that case you can just delete (or never get it to begin with) and all your other data is intact because it has no dependency on the deleted data to use or validate the rest.

      1:54 PM - 21 Mar 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Franz Grzeschniok
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
          Replying to @RichFelker

          Ok, your argument comes down to "it will always be possible for a user to determine the side effects/meta-data, and ergo, they can always encode something on a chain whose removal is problematic." This is true for Bitcoin, but there's no impossibility result backing it.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
          Replying to @el33th4xor @RichFelker

          There's also the legal issue of whether the Section 230 exemption should apply to nodes in a peer to peer system. There are many arguments and counterarguments, so I won't touch that one right now, but it's not a settled question that storing bits without a decoder is possession.

          2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
        4. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
          Replying to @el33th4xor @RichFelker

          And lastly, channel capacity matters a lot in steganography. A channel that requires millions of transactions to encode an image, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is interesting to ponder intellectually, but not a realistic threat on our way of life.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
          Replying to @el33th4xor

          Indeed that matters if your goal is to distribute Evil Data. It doesn't matter if your goal is just being able to jail arbitrary people participating in the blockchain.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
          Replying to @RichFelker @el33th4xor

          There's also very compact but highly illegal data you might want to distribute and make undeletable. Think things like leaked classified docs, doxing of gov't officials or other high-profile ppl, etc.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
          Replying to @RichFelker

          I don't think these pose any greater threat with blockchains than they do with any other medium. If anything, a viral leak on Twitter becomes undeleteable, and visible, much faster than on Bitcoin. Your previous point stands though: sovereigns could use such data as a pretext.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        8. Emin Gün Sirer‏Verified account @el33th4xor Mar 21
          Replying to @el33th4xor @RichFelker

          But at this point, I am not worried that states will crack down on the entire area of blockchains because of a few, or actually, just one according to the study, instance of vile material.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Mar 21
          Replying to @el33th4xor

          Maybe not. We'll have to wait to see. But I also suspect there will be attempts to manipulate currency through this sort of thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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