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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 18

      Huh. So, the Android team just decided that because closing high-resolution side channels is hard, no one needs CPU utilization information for apps on their phone any more?

      4 replies 13 retweets 42 likes
    2. jonathanstray‏ @jonathanstray Jan 18
      Replying to @Dymaxion

      I don't think they believe that, but I don't think they had much choice.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 18
      Replying to @jonathanstray

      I am unable to come up with a security vulnerability caused by giving users/other apps access to 5s-bucketed granularity CPU usage data.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. jonathanstray‏ @jonathanstray Jan 18
      Replying to @Dymaxion

      Huh, that's much lower res than I expected.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 18
      Replying to @jonathanstray

      Yeah. I can absolutely see the problem with ms granularity timers, but they're refusing to allow any bucketed information at all. You get three-hour bucketed battery use data and that's it. Not great for "why is this device laggy right now".

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Jan 18
      Replying to @Dymaxion @jonathanstray

      This is why I root and run top...

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 18
      Replying to @RichFelker @jonathanstray

      Rooting massively reduces the effective security of the device. Even turning on dev tools isn't a great idea, which your now have to do to even get memory usage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Jan 18
      Replying to @Dymaxion @jonathanstray

      Depending on your threat model, possibly. But Google doesn't give good alternatives to know or trust what your own device is doing & they're hardly trustworthy.

      3:34 PM - 18 Jan 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Brian H₂O's
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Jan 19
          Replying to @RichFelker @Dymaxion @jonathanstray

          It is relatively plausible that they’re putting out a panic patch because mobile is dreadfully affected.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 19
          Replying to @dakami @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          No, this was with Oreo as a whole, and it doesn't feel like an emergency mitigation. And second+ granularity buckets aren't conceivably a side channel.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Jan 19
          Replying to @Dymaxion @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          I've been arguing for coarse grain time buckets against side channels for years, so I don't disagree. But Android's almost certainly rife with thousands of variations of attacks here. Coarse grain reactions also include turning it off until you understand it better.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 19
          Replying to @dakami @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          Yeah. I don't get the feeling that's what they're doing, though.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Jan 19
          Replying to @Dymaxion @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          On what grounds? Not like there's exactly a constituency around making perf optimization harder. Privacy's what came up back when I was dealing with this in Firefox.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 19
          Replying to @dakami @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          In some of the bug threads, they explicitly rejected even many-second bucketed stats.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Dan Kaminsky‏Verified account @dakami Jan 19
          Replying to @Dymaxion @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          At the end of the day we have a bug class where threading and context switching themselves are more likely than not to be unsafe on present hardware. There's a lot of skepticism about any provable assertions in today's designs. Overcaution to be expected.

          3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        9. Eleanor Saittah ah ah‏ @Dymaxion Jan 19
          Replying to @dakami @RichFelker @jonathanstray

          It's not clear to me, from the timing, that this was actually about speculative exec vs. leaking other app activities.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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