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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017

      MPX is slower and significantly more memory hungry than approaches to software bounds checking for C. That's the cost of ABI compatibility.

      1 reply 2 retweets 5 likes
    2. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      Yet it fails at compatibility by having issues like false positives. It's not surprising that there's apparently nearly no adoption of it.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    3. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      They promised being able to have your cake and eat it too but look at how it worked out. It's barely relevant. Maybe that will change...

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    4. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      ... or maybe something with no sign of adoption will continue that way, only having served to take away interest in different approaches.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    5. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      A hard requirement for ABI compatibility cripples these kinds of mitigations whether it's CFI, bounds safety or temporal safety.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    6. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      Actually seems a lot easier to convince people to rebuild for a new ABI than it does to convince them to eat 3x perf / memory use costs.

      2 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 8 Jun 2017
      Replying to @CopperheadOS

      New ABI is an acceptable cost occasionally, but when done it needs to be done right. Screwing up & having to repeat is really bad image.

      12:04 PM - 8 Jun 2017
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @RichFelker

          Fully agree. Prematurely pushing a new ABI or hard-wiring an approach in hardware is bad. Definitely shouldn't be done behind closed doors.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        3. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          Can do that for entirely internal platforms but it's awful that ARM and Intel don't consult with the broader developer / academic community.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        4. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          Going to end up with all kinds of weird weak, slow and broken mitigations hard-wired into hardware. Not a fan of that approach at all.

          1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
        5. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          It's a lot different if it's only in software and not done in a way that encodes it as an API / ABI that needs to be supported forever.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          Can't understand how throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks is a sustainable approach to ISA design but what do we know.

          2 replies 1 retweet 3 likes
        7. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          Not a big fan of https://lwn.net/Articles/718888/ … either. Hardware should take a longer term approach than this, no?

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Can Acar‏ @acar_can 9 Jun 2017
          Replying to @CopperheadOS @RichFelker

          I am biased here. This is exploring a new primitive. Prefer to see where this takes us rather than waiting for a long term perfect thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 9 Jun 2017
          Replying to @acar_can @CopperheadOS

          Hardware shouldn't even be involved. It's about grasping at ways to monopolize the cpu/isa market, not protecting users.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 4 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Brendan G Bohannon‏ @cr88192 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @RichFelker @CopperheadOS

          this is an area where VMs can have an advantage: the low-level ABI can be changed more readily than if using precompiled native code...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Brendan G Bohannon‏ @cr88192 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @cr88192 @RichFelker @CopperheadOS

          though, a weak area is the preference for many VMs to rely on GC's or be fairly specialized for specific HLLs (typically not C), ...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Brendan G Bohannon‏ @cr88192 8 Jun 2017
          Replying to @cr88192 @RichFelker @CopperheadOS

          a "clever VM" might be one which AOT compiles everything in advance, but invalidates/recompiles apps/libs if the ABI changes or similar.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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