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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015

    glibc is about to effectively turn off ASLR by default on x86_64 because some broken Intel chips are 3% slower. https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2015-12/msg00221.html …

    9:04 AM - 11 Dec 2015
    • 202 Retweets
    • 99 Likes
    • meejah alanpdx ‽ 𒀩 幽霊文字 jeffburdges hanno Jann Horn Stefano Jacob Appelbaum Naziknusemaskineriet Vegar K. Rob Dux
    21 replies 202 retweets 99 likes
      1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        Anyone who cares about that 3% should just static link and get a 6% boost instead. The rest of us want security properties maintained.

        0 replies 34 retweets 41 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        As written, the proposed patch has no exception for suid binaries, even.

        1 reply 6 retweets 7 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker The patch isn't exactly that bad: it severely limits ASLR (to 32-bit) on Silvermont (only). Needs further refinement.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz "32-bit" ASLR is at best 20-bit and actually more like 16-bit. Trivial to brute-force, e.g. in suids.

        2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
      4. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker For local attacks on SUIDs, you're right that we need an exception where full ASLR would be enabled despite performance impact

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @solardiz

        @solardiz I still think the default should always be full ASLR. Non-suid apps can then honor an env var to restrict to 32-bit space.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      6. Solar Designer‏ @solardiz 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker I think you should post a follow-up suggesting at least the SUID exception. In fact, it's wrong to honor an env var in SUID.

        0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Gian-Carlo Pascutto‏ @gcpascutto 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker @solardiz The patch only affects Silvermont. Anything else in unaffected.

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @gcpascutto

        @gcpascutto @solardiz Yes, but Silvermont is exactly what I use; it's the only Intel family that can run passive-cooled.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. damageboy ‏‎‎داماج بوي‏ @damageboy 13 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker @jonpryor isn't this just for Silvermont processors?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 13 Dec 2015
        Replying to @damageboy

        @damageboy @jonpryor Yes, that's been discussed. But my perspective is that Silvermont is the only usable Intel line (only passive-cooled).

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker @solardiz BTW, Google does this in Android's Java runtime so it can still use 4-byte pointers on 64-bit...

        2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
      3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @CopperheadOS

        @CopperheadSec @solardiz The right way to do this is to alloc a 4GB PROT_NONE zone and use offsets, not assume low addrs are free.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        @RichFelker @solardiz They probably wouldn't want to base the performance cost of needing to resolve the real addresses.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @CopperheadOS

        @RichFelker @solardiz They're not even willing to pay for runtime relocations so they generate an image on boot and map it statically.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. CopperheadOS‏ @CopperheadOS 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @CopperheadOS

        @RichFelker @solardiz Combined with Zygote spawning and the entropy loss from jemalloc's design... Android has no meaningful ASLR for apps.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. John Regehr‏ @johnregehr 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @CopperheadOS

        @CopperheadSec @RichFelker @solardiz this is why we can't have nice things?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Joshua J. Drake‏ @jduck 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @johnregehr

        @johnregehr @CopperheadSec @RichFelker @solardiz indeed.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      9. End of conversation
      1. Peter Barfuss 𒀱‏ @bofh453 11 Dec 2015
        Replying to @RichFelker

        .@RichFelker holy fuck this is flagrantly irresponsible. Cannot understand how one'd think "speeds up things ~3%, disables ASLR" is OK.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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