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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman Aug 22
      Replying to @taviso @SwiftOnSecurity and

      I think the difference is in controlling the brand and by doing so allowing the end-user to discern a visible difference. "This is real Chrome and when I'm in this, it's not cooperating with the boss spying." "This is the work browser that I have to use so that they see."

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
      Replying to @mdhardeman @taviso and

      Yes exactly. That kind of UX distinction is essential to teaching non-security-expert users basic safety AND to building their faith that TLS/HTTPS/encryption actually does what it's claimed to do.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
      Replying to @RichFelker @mdhardeman and

      Everyone thinks that, the problem is it's not possible. Why don't you just solve the halting problem Rich, that would make things much easier. Don't you care about users? Do the right thing, stop tweeting and get solving.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
      Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

      Here "not possible" is a matter of political will/marketplace influence by the browser vendors, not some underlying fundamental impossibility. Tweeting about it is a small step towards making the idea that they should do this mainstream.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
      Replying to @RichFelker @mdhardeman and

      Write me a program that can safely assert something when the Administrator is malicious, it can be as simple as you like. Make it show the result of X509_verify() or something in a message box.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
      Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

      That's impossible. But what is possible is asserting "either someone committing a crime is in control of this machine, or any certificate it accepts is sufficiently legitimate that your non-backdoored phone/laptop would also accept it".

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
      Replying to @RichFelker @mdhardeman and

      Serious question, If I told you yesterday that today you would be arguing for DRM and that Administrators don't have the right to modify software on their own computers, would you have believed me?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
      Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

      No, because that's not what I'm arguing here. I don't think DRM is necessary or good. I think TM&© are. I don't think you lack a right to modify sw on your own computer. I do think you lack a right to put modified sw in front of a user who's unaware it's modified.

      1:42 PM - 22 Aug 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • Matthew Hardeman Jens Wiechers
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
          Replying to @RichFelker @mdhardeman and

          You're dropping the DRM argument, and now you're only arguing for the legal thing? To make sure we're on the same page, you believe that owning a computer does not give you the right to alter the software on it?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
          Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

          I never made the DRM argument; that was someone else. I noted that having obfuscations in each new binary version to make it a pain to keep up with patching might raise the cost of MITM crapware, but didn't go so far as advocate it because my preferred approach is legal.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
          Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

          I also don't think you have a right to present to a user a certificate for a domain/company/individual you're not actually authorized to represent. IOW I think all MITM certificates are acts of fraud, and should be prosecuted as such.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. SwiftOnSecurity‏ @SwiftOnSecurity Aug 22
          Replying to @RichFelker @taviso and

          They signed a release.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 22
          Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity @taviso and

          That doesn't make it any less fraudulent. You could sign a release saying you don't care if I forge other people's signatures on checks I give you, but it's still fraud for me to forge those people's signatures.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
          Replying to @RichFelker @SwiftOnSecurity and

          Rich... come on 🤣

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman Aug 22
          Replying to @taviso @RichFelker and

          I concur. Would that real privacy could exist even at work, but that's not life and there are employers who only reluctantly deploy this stuff because they're legally required to. I'm not debating validity of corporate MITM. It's valid and needed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman Aug 22
          Replying to @mdhardeman @taviso and

          Where I think there's room for improvement is that I don't believe there's any good reason for any of Chrome's product decisions to be based on not inconveniencing that segment.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
          Replying to @mdhardeman @RichFelker and

          Where did you get this "invoncenicing" from? The problem is we don't want them in our address space, because they will get it wrong and make things worse and less discoverable for users! Explain how a user finds out if chrome.exe is being hooked, is that easier or harder than CA?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso Aug 22
          Replying to @taviso @mdhardeman and

          Do you think you can safely inject a DLL and hook chrome? I don't think you can, it's really hard. I think you probably can set up a corporate CA. I don't think you should, but if I have to pick one - I pick the latter.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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