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RichFelker's profile
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
Rich Felker
@RichFelker

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Rich Felker

@RichFelker

Yeah, I do @musllibc, FOSS & infosec stuff. But now is not the time for a mostly-/only-tech Twitter feed.

musl-libc.org
Joined March 2014

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    1. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 14

      Tweet-sized explanation of Foreshadow: Intel chips with speculative execution erroneously use OS-private bits of not-present page table entries as physical addresses, allow reading L1-cached data from resulting location via timing side-channel.

      1 reply 4 retweets 4 likes
      Show this thread
      Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 14

      There's no way Spectre is going to be fixed without just nuking speculative execution from orbit. It was a bad idea. Go back to 90s-era microarchitectures and start over figuring out how to make it fast.

      3:27 PM - 14 Aug 2018
      • 2 Retweets
      • 5 Likes
      • @landley Drew Raines Paul Muad’Dab Laurent Bercot Matthew Hardeman Jason Bucata - Tech
      2 replies 2 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. William D. Jones‏ @cr1901 Aug 14
          Replying to @RichFelker

          There is also no way society is going to give up speed gains for the sake of security. As @securelyfitz put it to me some months back. Spec ex is inherently a side channel; it's bad we took so long to realize it, but we have to live with it if we want forward progress.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 14
          Replying to @cr1901 @securelyfitz

          The speed gains are marginal, and negative if you're measuring performance per watt or per area. If the Centerton microarchitecture had not been abandoned and had been heavily invested in, we'd likely have in-order, non-speculative chips competitive with Spectre-hell.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. William D. Jones‏ @cr1901 Aug 14
          Replying to @RichFelker @securelyfitz

          The only real saving grace of your proposal is that in practice, in order CPUs can be usable desktop systems (source: I have an in order Atom netbook that's still useable). But usable != pleasant.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Aug 14
          Replying to @cr1901 @securelyfitz

          They'd be a lot better than just "usable" if all of Intel's, AMD's, and ARM's R&D budgets over the past 15 years had been poured into them rather than into speculative foolery.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman Aug 14
          Replying to @RichFelker

          That's the reality. If speculative execution can not be truly consequence free -- not just "consequence free" in terms of easy and obvious measurement/detection, then it probably has to go in the entirety. Now it's obvious that there's value in finding the non-obvious effects.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Matthew Hardeman‏ @mdhardeman Aug 14
          Replying to @mdhardeman @RichFelker

          Of course... If it's truly consequence free, that essentially must mean that it doesn't speed anything up, either. Isn't any version of speeding things up via spec ex a consequence of spec ex? So we're probably back at simply: "It just has to die."

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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