Even if we can show that a very high incidence of children accept the same religion, political party and football team as their parents and are glad of the modification as adults, the fact is that there are always some who don't and aren't & they should have individual freedom.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
The majority of American parents who opt for circumcision in the natal ward aren’t doing it for religious, political, or sports reasons. I’m curious if you would enforce your ethic. Should it be illegal?
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Replying to @HARBDARREL
Yes, the same rule applies. I am arguing that religious customs should have no more special significance than secular ones. In most cases, we don't allow parents to modify their kids bodies without medical need. We shouldn't make an exception for this.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
OK, but let’s speak of the law and practicality first. The UK has a law against FGM and is incapable of enforcement. Do you think that outlawing circumcision will help? Because it’s consistent?
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Replying to @HARBDARREL
I think it would prevent many cases coz safe options weren't available but drive others underground to less infection and pain controlled "surgeons." This is a practical consideration rather than an ethical one. Kids still have the right to freedom of choice.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
Also, it’s tangential to your principle, but do you think it matters that circumcision has a visual purpose (right or wrong) of projecting masculine sexuality, and that FGM is designed to suppress female sexuality?
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Replying to @HARBDARREL
Circumcision among non-Jews in America was also about preventing sexual pleasure and decreasing masturbation, tho. But I genuinely don't know how circumcision projects masculine sexuality. We don't have it much here & I'm not aware of connotations like this for cut men.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
It’s not complicated. A circumcised penis shows more, and looks more like an erect penis. It exposes what is concealed. Circumcised penises are extremely dominant in porn, which can be presumed to not have inhibition of masturbation as a concern. 1/2
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Replying to @HARBDARREL
OK, but I think this would have to be widely accepted and here we just accept that most men aren't circumcised and circumcised ones take a bit of getting used to.
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Replying to @HPluckrose
Yes, and here it’s the opposite. What I’m getting at is that FGM is a horror, it’s both illegal and ignored, and you’re going after the 11 Jews who haven’t yet been driven out of the UK. +5 points for intellectual consistency, -20 for moral relevance.
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I'd argue that circumcision, male genital mutilation, is also a horror, but it is a horror that gets ignored, accepted because two major religions practice it, and because it has become the norm in the USA, an unfortunate center of western civilization.
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