And like, how much did this have to do with me, or the monastery itself? Surely some for both, but also one of them later left and was angry at the monastery and would forcefully impose their frame in the same way they had before, but now with me defending the monastery
Conversation
the other was also caught in a weird intractable conflict with someone they were very close to, at the same time, substantially about frames, sensemaking, etc.
1
4
And like, I've got lots of stuff around not feeling safe to express myself, not feeling safe in groups, etc etc; how much of my freakout was just my stuff? Other people reported feeling variously stifled and unsafe, so clearly not all
1
4
It _seems like_ the result was suppressing a lot of critical thoughts, and dissociating more
Or was it? How dissociated was I to begin with? Obviously dissociation can be compartmentalized, but, etc etc. And how well can I even recall my experience from before?
1
4
And on the same side of the argument, people there perceived me as rather contrarian, one person expressed it as "reflexively heterodox"
1
4
This kind of self doubt can go on forever, etc etc, etc. This both feels similar to reported experiences of deconversion, cult recovery etc, *and* to my familiar neurotic spinning worries
1
4
Moloch, Mara, and other spirits want one to get caught up in righteous anger, which makes it enormously hard to understand what happened. I've waiting more than a year since leaving to write anything public even remotely critical, and I haven't even referred to them by name.
1
6
As well, the person who finally did publicly criticize the org is probably the least well suited of all the former trainees I'm aware of, and she seems to be trying to destroy it rather than help anyone
1
6
Similarly to qc's experience it felt and still mostly feels impossible to have my own thoughts about the monastery because of the shape of the discourse around it, internally and externally (see this whole thread)
Quote Tweet
2. brent, the guy who ran the mini-cult i was in inside the rationalists, got kicked out of the rationality community, but it wasn't because of the cult. it was because a sexual assault accusation was levied against him anonymously in a medium post
twitter.com/micro_solid/st
Show this thread
1
6
I'll get to some specifics: while I was there I developed extremely intense misophonia, now even the sight of someone chewing, even from behind without any audible sound, arouses boiling rage. Usually I just dissociate *hard* when this happens.
2
5
Replying to
at OAK i developed a persistent tension in my left shoulder that, at OAK, only occurred when i was sitting, and now flares up in response to certain kinds of stress. still there after 2 years :/ doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as what you're describing but... another data pt
Replying to
Another part of this question is contextualizing all of this re intensive monastic practice. My understanding, across traditions, is that monastic training is very destabilizing for almost everyone for periods of months or years at the beginning,
1
1
but is regarded as totally worth it by ppl who stick it out. There's some legitimate criticism to be made of that entire swath of orientations to practice (mark is obviously exemplary of this), but this is a criticism _from within the discipline_, so to speak,
1
1
Show replies