Conversation

QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
in the common cult construction an important part of how it works is you say that Our Glorious Leader has a unique ability to commune with the spirits so your ability to verify for yourself what is happening in the spirit realm is restricted. you have to take their word for it
1
52
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
the restriction in rationality is not quite as tight but loosely it works out to "you have to know a certain minimum amount of math / CS to reason about what AIs can and can't do and if you can't do that you have to take other people's words for it who do"
2
1
54
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
this pitch has a specific effect on people who consider themselves to know enough math / CS to reason about what AIs can and can't do, and a very different effect on people who are... i don't have a nice way to say this... insecure about their intelligence
4
1
69
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
there's a pattern i've seen mostly women fall into in the rationalist scene, where it seems like they're looking for... how do i say this... epistemic daddies. father figures to tell them what is true and also validate them for being smart
12
34
143
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
that's a bit of a digression from my main point but it ties into this broader issue in rationalist epistemics around who is considered "smart" enough that you have to defer to their opinions, and the extent to which "intelligence" is framed as gating access to important truths
1
1
63
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
if you seriously buy the AI safety pitch *and* you feel insecure about your intelligence / your ability to do math you're in an uncomfortable position. the entire shape of your future is being dictated by forces you don't feel capable of understanding. wat do?
4
2
75
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
there's always been this huge divide in the rationalists i never really understood but this is helping me clarify it; it's between the rationalists who believe they can do math and the rationalists who don't. only the first group of rationalists has unfiltered access to Truth
4
3
82
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
and they end up functioning as a de facto priest class for the second group, who end up as kind of... hangers-on? groupies? it confused me for a long time (i didn't understand what the second group was getting out of this arrangement) but i think i kinda get it more now
3
1
75
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
anyway, in case it helps to hear me say it: anyone is capable of doing math. some of you have, for lack of a better word, "math trauma," and that trauma can be resolved, and you too can directly access the platonic realm, you don't have to take anyone else's word for it
6
14
164
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
Replying to
@QiaochuYuan
and tbc by "smart" and "intelligent" in this thread i'm referring to a pretty specific thing, more of a social construction than an innate ability. some people give off "smart" and "intelligent" vibes and other people automatically defer to their opinions and so forth (it me)
4
1
50
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
mostly i don't notice it but when i do it often feels bad. people should defer to me less, i still mostly don't know anything. eliezer was onto something when he started intentionally cringeposting in the sequences about naruto and stuff. that was good shit
7
80
QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
update: part of this discussion is locked but i have been prodded into clarifying that every time i say “rationalist” here i am referring to the bay area community centered around MIRI and CFAR specifically. there are other IRL communities and also the broader online community
21
Kevin Cantú
@killerswan
Replying to
@QiaochuYuan
I’m not following rationalist culture, but generally it’s not that you _can’t_ talk about intelligence it’s that there’s centuries of racist people doing bad science who’ve poisoned that well (who still have active fans today) so it’s difficult
1
1