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snav
@qorprate
Both Scotts have narrative and identity-based justifications for why they are in pain ("I am a nerd! I was bullied!"). Whether these are accurate or not is beside the point. The real question is: "what are you going to do about it?"
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snav
@qorprate
What they could use is a little bit of *doubt*. Take a stand against yourself: what if your self-narratives are wrong? What if the "feminists" are right? What are you doing, in practice, and what do you expect to happen, then how do you respond?
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snav
@qorprate
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so basically i wanted something, did nothing to achieve it, and then when nothing happened, i felt like i failed, which in turn reinforced my identity as "someone who doesn't get the specific thing i wanted". wtf?
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snav
@qorprate
Ask yourself serious questions. What makes you a man? What about others do you desire, and in what ways do you compare yourself to others? What makes you want those things so badly? What would you like to do, but aren't doing? What are you afraid of?
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snav
@qorprate
For those so good at Science, it's surprising to me how rarely I see intelligent people turn their methodological chops against the sensory evidence they have the most immediate access to: themselves. Most are waiting for an authority to tell them about themselves instead.
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snav
@qorprate
Once you "own up" to it, you can tell people about yourself and what you want in a matter of fact way, without them having to fear that you'll randomly get mad and do something rash (i.e. what many women fear). This is, I think, what the "eating your shadow" thing is about.
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snav
@qorprate
If you're able to get a handle on your own pain and develop self-understanding, then you might find that being sensitive is attractive, a virtue, that helps you connect with others and support them, as well as communicate your own wants and needs more effectively.
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snav
@qorprate
I would like to see more mentorship and emotional support among men (which seems mainly about doing things together), as an identity which springs from action is the most stable of all, and makes it easier to "eat" the dark corners. But "society" wont do it for us.
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snav
@qorprate
(And to be clear, I empathize seriously with the struggles expressed by the Scotts and by other people participating in the ongoing conversation today, and I applaud them having the courage to speak. These are just my thoughts on "now what?")
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QC (in Berlin 7/29-???)
@QiaochuYuan
i'll say the same thing i said last time we talked about this: i don't see these things as being in as much tension as you seem to. comment 171 and untitled were very helpful for me in coming to grips with this stuff and probably fed into at least some of the work i did around it
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snav
@qorprate
i don't necessarily see them as being bad, because both are long and contain a lot, and they make good jumping-off points. but i've also seen people bounce off them and toward political/ideological warfare, because both posts imply that others are who "we" should focus on
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snav
@qorprate
Replying to
@QiaochuYuan
honestly i was a little worried that you would perceive this thread as an attack, and i didn't want it to come off as such. but i do think that moving away from the *overall* mentality expressed in those posts was an important direction of growth for me personally
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snav
@qorprate
i remember reading the Scott posts back in 2015 or 2016 and feeling like "YES THIS IS IT!", then i followed those threads as far as i could, and i unfortunately ended up more bitter than when i started :\
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