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What is manipulation?
How would you define the term?
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it's hard to pin down "manipulation" (sort of inherently, any explicit signs you look for can themselves be manipulated) and somewhat easier to pin down "being manipulated," i think; the felt experience of having been led somewhere you didn't actually want to go
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So what about leaders?
What about people who use body language/tone -- charisma --
To lead in a way they believe to be in the best interest of those around them?
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the difference between leadership and manipulation is a thing i occasionally call "participation." loosely: is the other person a full participant in whatever's happening or are you deliberately cutting a part of their being off
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People use consent to mean (at least) two things: a tool, and the thing the tool is supposed to accomplish. I think we need different words for the two things, and suggest "consent" for the tool and "participation" for the thing it's for.
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Hmm. So, consent? I can get down with that.
But what about cases where the leader has willing, consenting followers- but then dies?
Fades from the public eye?
Wouldn't it be best if leaders began working towards helping everyone else become leaders, in their own right?
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sure. everyone has to solve the succession problem and people mostly seem quite bad at it
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I'm not talking about the succession problem.
That was an example used because it was easy, honestly, which was prolly a mistake.
I'm talking about taking a leadership role in your own life, and helping your friends do the same, I think!
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sounds good to me 👍
(but i feel really tense for some reason. somehow this conversation keeps feeling to me like we're disagreeing even though i don't think we are and i don't understand where it's coming from)
Would you say that you feel like you’ve been led somewhere that you don’t actually want to go?
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maybe a little 😛
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