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What is manipulation?
How would you define the term?
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it's hard to pin down "manipulation" (sort of inherently, any explicit signs you look for can themselves be manipulated) and somewhat easier to pin down "being manipulated," i think; the felt experience of having been led somewhere you didn't actually want to go
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So what about leaders?
What about people who use body language/tone -- charisma --
To lead in a way they believe to be in the best interest of those around them?
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the difference between leadership and manipulation is a thing i occasionally call "participation." loosely: is the other person a full participant in whatever's happening or are you deliberately cutting a part of their being off
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People use consent to mean (at least) two things: a tool, and the thing the tool is supposed to accomplish. I think we need different words for the two things, and suggest "consent" for the tool and "participation" for the thing it's for.
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the analogy to partner dancing is, i think, pretty strong: is the follow being led, and fully participating in co-creating the dance along with the lead, or is the lead jerking the follow around (and cutting off the follow's creativity in how they choose to respond to leads)
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Ah. You subscribe to a way of dancing that I don't really find all that enjoyable.
I prefer taking turns, leading and following.
Each leads, by choosing when to follow. No one is just The Leader, nor just Being Led.
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that's... not what i said :/
(sorry, i really really don't like people putting words in my mouth)
taking turns is great but in any particular moment there can be a lead and a follow, we're not disagreeing
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I'm sorry! Wasn't intending to do that, I misunderstood what you were saying!
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no worries, normally i would just give up immediately but i think you're more open to feedback than most people, the feedback is a sign of trust, really 😅
I don't like making people feel upset, so I went and took a break/meditated for a while.
No answers though, it turned into a nap 😋
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