"Not participating" can be a lot of things: being too frozen in fear to say no. Being too wrapped up in a particular story about what's going on to notice that there's something you want to say no to. Being jerked around as a follow by a lead in a dance.
-
Show this thread
-
"Not participating" means your ability to cocreate the moment is being cut off by something - a habit of not standing up for yourself, trauma, wanting to keep someone else happy, explicit or implicit threats. All sorts of things.
1 reply 0 retweets 3 likesShow this thread -
"Not participating" can be as much about you as about the other person. It's about how the two of you are interacting as a system. Much more complicated than consent violation.
1 reply 0 retweets 4 likesShow this thread -
Ex: I heard a story once about a woman who enthusiastically consented to sex, even or especially if she didn't want it (I don't remember why, maybe to keep people happy or get it over with or something). She consented but cut off her own participation. This story terrifies me.
1 reply 0 retweets 3 likesShow this thread -
And OTOH, people can be coerced into consent. That sucks. And in order to even say that, we need the distinction between consent and participation: if you were coerced into consenting, then you didn't participate. (And I'm sorry.)
1 reply 0 retweets 3 likesShow this thread -
Some might prefer to say "if you were coerced into consent, then you didn't *really* consent." This is totally unworkable as an approach to consent-as-a-tool, and I'd rather talk about this sort of thing using participation.
1 reply 0 retweets 4 likesShow this thread -
If "really consenting" has to do with another person's internal state and not what they communicate to me, then I can't ever know if I have "real consent" without being able to read people's minds. (This is something I periodically freak out about.) This won't work.
1 reply 0 retweets 7 likesShow this thread -
Instead, let's distinguish between "getting consent," meaning having used the tool (explicit communication, setting context, setting boundaries), and "causing participation," meaning the good stuff is happening and not the bad stuff. Dancing beautifully together.
2 replies 0 retweets 8 likesShow this thread -
Replying to @QiaochuYuan
I think this is an interesting distinction but it doesn't carve reality at the joints I think are important.
1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @luminousalicorn @QiaochuYuan
(I don't think the conventional model carves there either, but it's closer than yours, I think.) I'm interested in both moral permissibility and also something I'd call equivalent to your "dancing beautifully" thing. It matters if consent is coerced - specifically, by whom!
1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
Huh, can you elaborate? Not sure I understand which bit of this is the joints you think are important. Is it the difference between "is this morally good" and "is this beautiful"? For me these are more on a spectrum of participation.
-
-
Replying to @QiaochuYuan
Elaborating on Twitter is hard, but I don't consider "morally acceptable" vs. "beautiful" to be a matter of a spectrum at all. Beautiful is over by super-erogation.
0 replies 0 retweets 2 likesThanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. UndoUndo
-
Loading seems to be taking a while.
Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.