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QiaochuYuan's profile
QC
QC
QC
@QiaochuYuan

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QC

@QiaochuYuan

apparently i am now the emotions + buddhist shitposting guy

Oakland, CA
thicketforte.com
Joined July 2018

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    1. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      "What other people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is their own business" is a bad argument for sexual tolerance, because it's not true and has never been true. We obviously care a shit-ton about other people's sex lives and always have.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
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    2. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      (CW frank discussion of sex and nonconsent)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    3. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      People care about whether other people are engaging in unethical behavior, for lots of reasons, but one is because we care about each other. The important caveat "...as long as it's between consenting adults" points clearly to this.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    4. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      If you think a certain sexual behavior is unethical / hurtful, it's normal for you to care whether other people engage in it, whether that behavior is homosexuality, kink, rape, pedophilia, whatever. Sex has always been a key ethical concern.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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    5. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      That is: if you think it's your business whether other people engage in rape or pedophilia, then you've already conceded that in general you think it's your business what other people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    6. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      The privacy argument deflects from the uncomfortable heart of the matter, which is: we don't agree about ethics (in this case sexual ethics), and moreover we don't have a shared cultural mechanism for coming to agreement about ethics.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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    7. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      Some people implicitly seem to want consent to be a foundation for ethics. This is pointing in a good direction, but consent as it stands today cannot bear this weight. There is so much murky territory waiting in the question of what it means to "really consent" to things.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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    8. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      QC Retweeted QC

      Cf. my thread on consent-as-a-tool vs. participation-as-the-thing-consent-is-trying-to-accomplish:https://twitter.com/QiaochuYuan/status/1113562140307124224 …

      QC added,

      QC @QiaochuYuan
      "How do I dance beautifully with other people" is a spirituality-complete question: trying to answer it is a complete spiritual path. Consent is better than what we had before, but there's so much more work for us to do here.
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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    9. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      Some might say e.g. that a 15-year-old can't "really consent" to sex with a 40-year-old, because of power imbalances etc. Using my terms, I would prefer to say that the 15-year-old is very unlikely to be able to participate, with or without explicit verbal consent.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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      QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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      OTOH parenting requires routinely violating the consent of children in some sense, e.g. making them go to sleep or go to school when they don't want to. We don't have a coherent ethical story about this.

      1:43 PM - 9 Apr 2019
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      • № Visakan Veerasamy Lucre Snooker Charlie El. Awbery a.k.a. Rin’dzin Pamo
      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          More uncomfortable territory: how do you know that you, or your sex partners, can "really consent" to sex? What if most adults can't "really consent" to sex? Does that make most people rapists?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        3. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          There's an important sense in which I was unprepared to consent to sex (e.g. lack of ability to tell what I really wanted) when I was 15, and turning 18 didn't make it any better! In some sense I was unprepared to consent to sex until I was 27 or so.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        4. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          In the meantime I attempted to consent to sex when I was 21 and the experience was deeply traumatizing, in a way that I wouldn't recognize and work on until much later. Long story.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        5. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          I would prefer to say: it's hard to cause participation, and it is mostly not happening. Many people are suffering and hurting themselves and each other, in and out of the bedroom. We did not get taught how to love ourselves and each other well. But we can learn.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        6. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          As far as privacy: mostly it seems people want privacy to protect themselves from bad or nosy people. That makes sense. But I think in many ways privacy is part of the problem, e.g. it hides abuse in families and romantic relationships.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        7. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          Cf. the fascinating "birth and death of privacy":https://medium.com/the-ferenstein-wire/the-birth-and-death-of-privacy-3-000-years-of-history-in-50-images-614c26059e …

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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        8. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          As far as what's my business: in general I think telling people "the thing you're doing is bad and you're bad, stop doing it" mostly doesn't work, and when it does work it's borderline abusive. I think there are better ways for us to talk about how to be human together.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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        9. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan Apr 9
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          ("The thing you're doing is bad and you're bad" is distinct from boundary-setting: "the thing you're doing is hurting me, and if you keep doing it, I'll leave." No need to appeal to the concept of badness here.)

          1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
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        10. End of conversation
        1. QC‏ @QiaochuYuan May 21
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          QC Retweeted Yoram Hazony

          https://twitter.com/yhazony/status/1130584533391355906 …

          QC added,

          Yoram Hazony @yhazony
          This theory was invented by men who did live more or less this way. But anyone who has raised children knows this theory isn’t true. I’m not free to choose my children and they aren’t free to choose me. Very often obligation has little or nothing to do with consent.
          Show this thread
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