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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Moshe Hoffman Retweeted

      More evidence (👇🏻) that our erroneous political beliefs are not driven by us being stupid or bad information processors. But by incentives to believe one thing or another. https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/997119799485399040 …

      Moshe Hoffman added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      Yes, and the research seems to show that it happens on both sides of the political aisle. Have you looked at the concept of "costly belief", i.e. a concept one is required to adopt to show that one belongs to the ingroup, but which would not be held by reasonable non-ingroup?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Yes I agree. No party has a monopoly on this. That idea makes sense. Do you have a good reference on that? Ideally with some good examples/case studies?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      I think I can dig out the references for non factual beliefs across camps. But the idea of a "costly belief" itself probably does not have evidential support. Perhaps you have an idea how to test it?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Hmm, I guess we should clarify exactly what’s being claimed. Some ideas are held by in group members because they would be *especially* costly to hold for outgroup members? If so...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman @Plinz

      this fits the logic of costly signaling. And so is well supported theoretically. And...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman @Plinz

      There r, I think, good analogs, specifically wrt to showing in group membership, like tattoos, which signal you are part of the counterculture, bc, at least in the past, would have been quite costly for people who r still trying to be mainstream, eg couldn’t get white collar job.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman @Plinz

      I can’t think of a clear example of beliefs that (clearly)fit this though. Maybe you can? A belief that is clearly there *because* not *so* costly for ingriup members but *uber* costly for most people?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      Young earth creationism, virgin birth, four armed deities etc. are classical examples. A new one might be 'cultural appropriation', for instance.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Yeah just not sure those are selected *because* they make it harder to be an outgroup member. Eg sjw might just be good way to signal care bout minorities (even if not actually useful to minorities). 1/2

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 May 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      That might be a good example: sjw cares about 'structural oppression' in a way that ignores actual material circumstances. For instance, most homeless people are not a concern because they are male, hence privileged. That would be counterintuitive to a run-of-the-mill leftist.

      10:02 PM - 17 May 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz

          Yeah I just don’t think such arguments (if they are given) would be given *because* other people would find them *more* unreasonable than sjw’s would. Rather I think such an argument *might* be given *because* it is a good way to signal in the know bout dogma re oppression.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 17 May 2018
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          Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman @Plinz

          (Obv this depends on the precise argument given. And also I think various aspects of sjw rhetoric/stances could be driven by slightly different motives. And not 100% sure. But signaling in the know re dogma or history, and signaling sympathetic to minorities, come to mind.)

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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