Are you familiar with the series of papers on the Piraha? It was a whole thing:https://twitter.com/shapkaa/status/982023915319906304?s=19 …
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Cole Hudson Retweeted ☞Cassidy #BlackLivesMatter
Are you familiar with the series of papers on the Piraha? It was a whole thing:https://twitter.com/shapkaa/status/982023915319906304?s=19 …
Cole Hudson added,
Yes! After being very puzzled, I mostly chalked them up as outliers: they have only a couple hundred speakers, so the group might have become stuck in a local minimum.
Interesting thought: How would one be able to tell if their own language had become stuck in such a minimum or saddle-point? Just in the same way the Piraha can't discover Einstein's relativity, are there things we can't discover because of language boundaries? How would we know?
The Piraha could apparently not even learn how to count to ten with 8 months training. Perhaps they have a mutation that affects numerosity or other things? They must have been heavily inbreeding in a tiny population.
I'm not sure an inability to count past 2 actually displays a lack of numerosity. This paper, https://arxiv.org/pdf/1203.4141.pdf …, in the course of talking about Hilbert's first problem, demonstrates the effective equivalence of their counting system with ours:pic.twitter.com/ZKzoWh705y
I recall reading that their quantity words roughly mean "lots" and "a few", not 1 and 2. Their apparent inability to tell apart 4 from 5 objects may indicate a possible difference in brain function, not just in language. It is a small, closely related population.
You're right, Everett more or less demonstrated that ambiguity in this paper (https://daneverettbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/FEFG-cognition-in-press.pdf …). He also showed how numbers are better thought of as compressing information into what's useful, the implication being that it's not at all inevitable we develop numbers.
Cole Hudson Retweeted Devon
I also like how counting as a technology gels with the paper @devonzuegel posted: https://twitter.com/devonzuegel/status/987860902056681472 ….
More, @michael_nielsen's response has a clear analog to the Piraha: they have no means of conveying where something is, and, they have a problem with cultural memory
Cole Hudson added,
As for the brain, I looked into it and get this: we know that numerosity - size approximation - takes place in the intraparietal suculus (iPS) via (http://sci-hub.hk/10.1177/1073858409333073 …), which is common in all kinds of animals per (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626588/ …).
But, per the two studies mentioned here (http://scienceblogs.com/developingintelligence/2008/08/27/parietal-cortex-and-object-per/ …), it's been shown that object permanence _also_ takes place in the iPS! I'm suspicious of how neat a solution this is though. To my mind this makes testing with infants even more valuable.
It could be a very selective attention deficit, similar to facial agnosia
There's a thing called acalculia, if that's what you mean.
yes. is it conceivable that a small Amazonian tribe that is genetically largely insulated has a heritable dyscalculia, or something higher upstream that leads to the same results?
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