question: can you reach #Enlightenment without Motivation and Belief? What kind of way might that be? #trainAI #future
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Replying to @Xrayhighs
I think that with a bit of dedication (and separation from everyday life), many people could go there, but if they understand what it means they won't find it desirable. Full (eastern) enlightenment is complete freedom from caring.
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Replying to @Plinz @Xrayhighs
Freedom from attachment, not caring. Beyond the limitations of a tweet what they mean by attachment; it's more or less our delusory, unchallenged conception of things that we hold too dear. Enlightenment is not a state of indifference; saintlike-compassion comes before nirvana.
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Replying to @stgabriel @Xrayhighs
I am not enlightened enough to make definitive statements here! I am aware that many practitioners think that their road ends with compassion, but others consider compassion to be a deluded state as well.
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Replying to @Plinz @Xrayhighs
One of the fascinating, troubling aspects of buddhism is that nobody, apart from a few buddhas, knows what nirvana actually is. We know it's a general ending of the cycle of rebirth. But where are the buddhas? The answer is, apparently: "You'll know when youre a buddha".
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And so, if one is motivated to become a monk (being a lay buddhist is like, meh, in buddhism), your best reason is, 'this is not for me, i don't exist, i'm more or less a fiction, im just giving up this deluded experience, I want off this merry-go-round'.
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Replying to @stgabriel @Xrayhighs
I suspect that monasteries and religions are economic and political institutions and thus may not have interests that are fully aligned with what you intend. A religion or monastery that leads its clients efficiently to deliverance would perish. Instead, it must sell the promise.
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Replying to @Plinz @Xrayhighs
I wouldn't dismiss 2500 years of cultural practice, with terms like 'efficiency', or discuss the 'deliverables' of their monastic traditions. Or speculate about what they 'sell'. We can do better than applying western consumerist interpretations of 'quaint oriental beliefs'.
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Replying to @stgabriel @Xrayhighs
I don't think that they are "quaint oriental beliefs". Yet the Buddhist practices of today are largely not the same as 2500 years ago (they are evolving and culturally exchanging too), and we don't do Western schools of thought justice if we dismiss them as consumerist etc.
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Replying to @Plinz @Xrayhighs
"we" didn't dismiss western thought as consumerist. anyway, im out of time: go read that book, joscha; it's fun and not uninteresting, but you'll sound like you're talking out of your hat until you have some basic concepts.
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Thank you for your patience with me!
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