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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 27 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @samim

      And then you realize that all that advancement and cultural structure of western society is basically the result of thousands of years of just this: elites engaging in the mass social engineering of their subjects, which by submitting to this engineering become their agents.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. vakibs‏ @vakibs 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim

      The advancement of western society is the result of exploitation of the rest of the planet. But the free reign of exploitation is now hitting its boundaries as natural wealth is depleted. Self-exploitation and self-conceit will not lead to perennial growth.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. vakibs‏ @vakibs 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @vakibs @Plinz @samim

      For a large part of history, western society with its ethical norms driven by social engineering, was pretty crap in comparison to other civilizations with different sets of values. The current dominance of the west is too short-lived (a few centuries) to base any conclusions.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @vakibs @samim

      What do you base that on? Which civilizations were able to lift their entire population out of abject poverty, while producing rule of law, freedom of thought, universal literacy, and scientific rationalism?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. vakibs‏ @vakibs 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim

      It is fudging of accounts when you say Europeans lifted their population out of abject poverty. The colonies were under direct administration of European powers (e.g, India under UK), and they suffered dramatic drops in economic product, life-expectency etc. during colonial rule.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. vakibs‏ @vakibs 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @vakibs @Plinz @samim

      Universal literacy is again complete bogus. Most people are uneducated, even today. They are clueless in how to go about their daily lives in an educated manner, even in essential matters like health and nutrition. Other civilizations were far better educated.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @vakibs @samim

      Which civilizations do you have in mind?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. samim‏ @samim 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @vakibs

      Given that you are developing grand theories of reality at times, I'm very curios to hear "Which civilizations do YOU have in mind?". Our visions might be more aligned than we sense over twitter, who knows ;)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @samim @vakibs

      If I were to design a civilization and it would be overcome by another civilization because it had better military and social control technologies, I would have failed, no? Disliking military and social control is not a mitigating circumstance in an evolutionary competition.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. samim‏ @samim 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @vakibs

      The thing that is "overcoming" us, is not an other civilisation, but human-made climate change. I'm not against guidance (control with trust & agency), but i do sense progress is moving away from the militaristic/brutal forms of "education", towards more gentle ideas.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 28 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @samim @vakibs

      There is very little actual agency in the systems of social organization. And the universe is not governed by moral forces. Such forces don't exist. Reality is entirely physical.

      2:07 PM - 28 Mar 2018 from Boston, MA
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. samim‏ @samim 28 Mar 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @vakibs

          My definition of "agency" comes from HCI, not philosophy. It can be measured via information theory to a certain extent. An other way of putting it: How much processing do we want in the individual agents to happen, and how desirable are emergent properties.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. samim‏ @samim 28 Mar 2018
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          Replying to @samim @Plinz @vakibs

          Btw. regarding your previous question "Which civilizations do you have in mind? if i have to boil it down: a much more psychedelic one, where the economy is renewable, circular & ok with 0 growth, education more important than profits, and science and arts have replace labour.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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