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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

      Democracy is the rule of the poor (Aristotle, Politics). The rule of the oligarchs is called Oligarchy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

      Not all oligarchies are Democracies, and no Democracy larger than Iceland is democratic. (Iceland has ~350000 inhabitants, and democratic administration tends to work well on a communal level.) Greek democracy at its peak hat a similar number of people, and just 30000 voters.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

      Democracy --> no vote, you draw admin/management by lot (again, Aristotle, Politics - chapter 4 if I remember). Modern states are oligarchies of different flavours - in some of them the plebs are allowed some leeway, but have no (or token) say in the commons.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @Plinz and

      If at any point you have a process of societal ruling class selection (e.g. vote, exams, market success, hereditary, intelligence, you-name-it) you have an oligarchy.

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    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

      I don't think that is true. For instance, China and Cuba have a process of societal ruling class selection, but they are not oligarchies. And I think that while the US and Germany are de facto ruled by oligarchs, they are republics with representative democracy.

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    6. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

      There is nothing democratic about US or Germany - they are oligarchic liberal states. China is oligarchic but not liberal, Cuba is a more difficult case, but obviously none of them democratic (at least in the original sense)

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    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

      I don't think that the West is entirely undemocratic, it is just not like the fairytale version we put into schoolbooks. There are rules that create a high degree of accountability even for the powerful, and in principle everyone can rise up there, unlike in a tyrannical system.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

      In all political systems you can rise through the ranks - even ex-slaves in Rome could become rich (i.e. people that were treated as things for parts of their lives) - and there are certain traditions that bind the elite. Liberalism != Democracy.

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    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

      Rome was a republic! But just a hundred years ago, you generally could not rise through the ranks in Germany unless you were a member of the hereditary aristocracy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

      You could buy titles in all European states since the inception of Feudalism (and it's part of what caused the French revolution, they overdid it). If you are saying that lives in Europe are better now vs 100 years ago, I agree.

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      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

      They are, but quality of governance and political permeability are not the same thing. Singapore is not very democratic, and I hear people there think life is good.

      10:51 PM - 31 Jan 2018
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        2. Spyros Samothrakis‏ @spysamot 31 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @samim @vakibs

          OK - so the question of how absolute the oligarchic rule should be or what form it should take has been posed (and debated) from the early renaissance onwards. A liberal bunch of nice oligarchs don't make a democracy - nor does economic success.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 31 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @spysamot @samim @vakibs

          We agree, but this debate is mostly inconsequential, because decisions about power tend to be made implicitly, by the dynamics of existing power; it is an emergent path with few genuine opportunities for deliberate re-design, because that requires abdication of existing powers.

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        4. End of conversation

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