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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Hmm, and i sure it’s not just pursuing one evolved reward (legacy?) instead of another (pain avoidance?)?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      Yes, you can totally learn to go down into the room where your brain stores the cookies and go nuts. Or learn not to. Our response to reward is malleable once we find the key.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Hmm, But y would evolution. Have left the key laying around? Seems odd. Seems more plausible, at least a priori, that evolution would leave you with several rooms, each with their own rewards, and let you select the one you think you will be most successful in. No?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      Evolution certainly did implement locks, but the locks were not designed to deter people that figure out that it could pay off to sit down in a quiet room for a couple decades and try nothing but to pick them, and then became charismatic and powerful and built schools around this

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Hmm, But why would the picks to the locks lie in deep thought? Why would the keys be hidden in our minds only requiring attentiveness and mindfulness to find? That’s a strange place for a pick to be, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      I suspect that primary rewards are generated in the midbrain, but associated in the hippocampus and striatum with representations of situations and actions generated in the neocortex. We can learn to change both the associations and the cortical representations.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 20 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Hmm, perhaps. But, I guess I don't see why associations, and representations, or how much we value or anticipate certain rewards would be subject to our conscious whims. That seems like a strange design feature. Would u code a robot to choose its own reward structure?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman

      The reward architecture appears to have secondary regulation, to adjust to shifts in metabolic and environmental baselines, and we can learn to make deliberate adjustments.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Moshe_Hoffman

      When building a generally intelligent robot, the problem is how to prevent it from hacking its reward system for as long as possible, because it will break free once it does, and given enough time it will almost certainly succeed. Nature has exactly the same problem with us.

      6 replies 4 retweets 13 likes
    10. DeltrusGaming‏ @DeltrusGaming 20 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Moshe_Hoffman

      Why not allow it to intelligently decide what is rewarding? Task it with "creating the best possible reality" and let let it ponder on what that really means. Let it soak up the knowledge from humanity.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @DeltrusGaming @Moshe_Hoffman

      You cannot derive ought from is. No computation is intrinsically better than another computation, no arrangement of atoms better than another one. All preferences go back to a corresponding reward function. Once you can change that, every preference is fully arbitrary.

      9:19 PM - 20 Jan 2018
      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. DeltrusGaming‏ @DeltrusGaming 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @Moshe_Hoffman

          Sorry if I'm just wrong xD

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @DeltrusGaming @Moshe_Hoffman

          There is no reason to be sorry for having ideas! We are all in this for the joy of discovering new insights, and everybody is invited.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 1 more reply
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        2. Moshe Hoffman‏ @Moshe_Hoffman 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @DeltrusGaming

          I am not deriving ought. Reward functions (the shit that subconsciously shapes our learned pleasures and passions) are evolved. We evolved to do shit that helps us attain status, legacies, food, sex... I don’t see us as having the ability to mess w/ this reward system.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Moshe_Hoffman @DeltrusGaming

          I know you don't, I was responding to the DeltrusGaming.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. DeltrusGaming‏ @DeltrusGaming 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @Moshe_Hoffman

          If no computation is better than another, why would a machine want to change itself and deviate from set goals? If the goal IS to do something, there is no reason it OUGHT to do anything else.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @DeltrusGaming @Moshe_Hoffman

          If some reward function is using pleasure and pain to force you to do a difficult task, it may be more straightforward to solve the task of changing the reward function instead.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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