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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      The problem is, people aren't very good at being rational. We are not Vulcans. We use our higher brain functions mainly to rationalize our emotional decisions. And I have doubts about universal truth, given the mess with all those variable meaning functions in the brain. /1

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @pavel23

      No, some people are very good at being rational, and other people are very good at accepting programming, and while there is some commutation between the groups, they seem to be quite distinct.

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    3. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      You said in one of your CCC talks that our brain states evolve in landscapes where we might find ourselves in different valleys. Rationality also is not a well defined concept. Real people are not utility-maximizing agents, and couldn't agree on a utility function if they were.

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    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @pavel23

      Rationality does by itself not imply values, other than a pragmatically justified commitment to truth for the process itself. But once we make our preferences explicit, we can use rationality to negotiate.

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    5. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I am afraid we have to establish a common meaning for what you mean with "truth for process". Absence of intentional deception? Best effort? Peterson speaks about how hard and tedious it can be for people to find out what they really want and need. People's minds are messy.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @pavel23

      I think of government as both an agent to impose offsets on the local incentives of its subjects, to make their local Nash equilibria compatible with an improved global outcome, and a platform to negotiate preferred outcomes and conflicts between these preferences.

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    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @pavel23

      Realistically, governments cannot make all subjects an equally good offer, yet it wants to minimize to incentivize by violence, so all governments like the majority of their subjects to be a bit befuddled about their true incentives.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      The probably most important thing you need in any social system is that it produces justice that is compatible with our evolutionally hardwired system for perception of fairness, which might give us helpful constraints in modeling such a system one day, but it sounds very hard.

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    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @pavel23

      I don't actually think that is true! People were mostly fine with their kings. Eventually, people will accept systems of norms that they think gives them the best outcome they can expect. The problems happen when people don't get enough, or think they could bargain for more.

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    10. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Even the kings needed an elaborate system of rules producing justice, and when it failed there was trouble. And people can't know and mostly don't care how optimal the outcome; they react however very emotional if they perceive it is not a fair outcome. Lots of research on that.

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      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 19 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @pavel23

      Yes, justice is very important. But what passes as just and fair is malleable and not universal. Is it fair if the strong clobbers the weak? Is it fair when the unfit take from the successful ones? Are we universalists or is it ok to look out more for our own?

      6:07 PM - 19 Jan 2018
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        1. Pavel Mayer‏Verified account @pavel23 20 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz

          There are numerous theories of justice, many of them universal. I found John Rawls particularly interesting, although his theory is not practical. However, with about 20-25 rules from different theories it is possible to summarize almost everything widely regarded as fair today.

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