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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Best by which measure? Best for whom?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik

      Some possible suggestions for evaluating outcomes: median standard of living, level of violence, amount and cost of coercion, stability of social order, economical and ecological sustainability, cultural production.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      By all this measures 30% very poor and suffering people who believe that their life is the best they can get and could only get worse if they try to change anything would be totally ok.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik

      This was just an ad hoc suggestion; part of the point of the exercise is that everyone in a fully liberal society may use their own measures to judge the desirability of the outcome. How would you measure outcomes?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      That is the problem. My point is: the question is invalid as it suggests that this kind of measure exists at all. The single point of view from which you could decide this question simply does not exist.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik

      Why? Do you really want to claim that you can have no preference function for outcomes? The lack of universality of such a function is in itself not a problem but you may choose to consider it when constructing your function.

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    7. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      You certainly can have such measure. But it will not be the best for everyone. So to refraim your question: is it ok for you to teach wrong concepts to people even if they will suffer more, if you believe that the society in total will be better off by your personal measure.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik @Plinz

      (if people have wrong concepts they cannot judge your measure so you have to decide for them)

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    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik

      Yes, under certain conditions, but you cannot assume that you are the one who gets to decide for others, and it is not guaranteed (but more likely) that deciders will be rational, especially since persuasion is different if society does not optimize for truth. All obvious, no?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Klaus Stein‏ @Lapizistik 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Either there is someone who has to decide or you don't need to answer the question ;-)

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      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 17 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Lapizistik

      That is not only a non-sequitur (answering the question is itself unrelated to who is in power in a hypothetical society), but also a false dichotomy between a single decider and the absence of decision making processes. You may want to go more meta.

      2:01 PM - 17 Jan 2018
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