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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. AQ‏ @Evollaqi 5 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      The only working philosophical edifice left?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Evollaqi

      Even dualism and the different versions of idealism seem to require a computational foundation. Every supernatural entity must ultimately have natural causes (even if those are in a parent universe).

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. AQ‏ @Evollaqi 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Could you elaborate? What is your account of causation here? Why would a non-contingent entity (say, the number 2) require a cause? Why does your account of causation entail that dualism and idealism require a computational foundation? Thank you for letting me pick your brain!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Evollaqi

      Causality is a feature of a model that separates a domain into independent, interfacing systems, whereby the evolution of one system is conditional of interfaced states of the other. If you treat the universe as a single, evolving state, then there is no causation within it.

      3 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Evollaqi

      In my usual view, all of mathematics is a priori and does not evolve, so the number 2 cannot be caused. But if you treat Peano's axioms as a computational generator operating on a Platonic substrate, then 2 is caused by a metamathematical machine executing Peano's axioms.

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Evollaqi

      The question of the cause of 2 is the same as the question of the cause of the shape of the Mandelbrot fractal. The natural numbers are literally a fractal, with Peano's axioms being one possible rule set, and we discover (not create) them and their properties by computation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Evollaqi

      If a universe presents itself via discernible differences (information) and is regular enough for computation, then its substrate (if it has one) must necessarily and sufficiently be a computer, i.e. a system capable of regular state change with Turing universality.

      4 replies 3 retweets 9 likes
    8. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

      To me this assertion appears to ignore the fact that even the computability of maths is conjecture not a fact ; so I would say that where you use 'must' in this and the following tweet, that 'I conjecture' would be more accurate?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

      Mathematics is mostly uncomputable. The existence of turing universal computers that can do constructive math is an empirical fact.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

      So why think anything else is computable if even maths isn't? Unrelatedly I confess I was riled by “computationalism the only working philosophical edifice” in a way I wouldn't be by “computationalism is an interesting idea worth exploring.”

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 7 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

      Mathematics is the domain of all formal languages, i.e. all possible specifications. Computation is the domain of all possible implementations. To exist is to be implemented.

      6:45 AM - 7 Jan 2018 from Tårnby, Danmark
      • 1 Like
      • Chris F Carroll
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 10 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

          So, if I may try to explore a bit? have I understood right so far: (1) You're asserting that anything that exists must be computational (2) You reckon that this idea can be (or has been? If so, have you a ref?) built out into a philosophical edifice?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @chrisfcarroll @Grady_Booch @Evollaqi

          Computationalism is simply the contemporary terminology of philosophical mechanism. A machine is a thing that can change state, i.e. somehow implement both a state and a transition function. Naturalism now means that everything has ultimately machine underpinnings.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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