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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @Plinz @diviacaroline

      It may seem unconfusing if you only look at one study. Taken as a whole, and with the limitations of the studies, it's confusing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @diviacaroline

      Can you please point me to the confusing studies? Did you see at least one single study that convincingly shows that masks somehow increase the risk of infection?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @Plinz @diviacaroline

      No, you've confused the point here! That a study showed that is not convincing, but rather, a symptom of the lack of strong and consistent evidence that they are effective. Nobody thinks they make it worse (unless you engage in risky behavior as a result, of course).

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @Plinz @diviacaroline

      The confusion on the benefits does not extend from positive to negative infinity. But given the conflicting recommendations and results on the spectrum of ineffective to effective, it's hard to escape "confusing".

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @diviacaroline

      That what not what I implied at all. I just have not seen studies that demonstrate convincingly that masks don't reduce infections, and several that seem to show the opposite. So if you say it's confusing, I want to know why.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @Plinz @diviacaroline

      Here's where you *asked* for studies showing it increased them. You introduced it. Glad we can dispose of it! It's confusing because there are studies, like the one I cited earlier, that suggest they're ineffective. If they were *convincing*, then we wouldn't have confusion!pic.twitter.com/xnhxHlgr8u

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @Plinz

      I don't think anybody really thinks they have zero benefit. I am certainly NOT trying to argue that case in any event. But there are a host of questions within that space. Does your typical person wearing a mask reduce his risk of household transmission, for example?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns @Plinz

      Or is it swamped by other factors, or do poor usage practices render it moot, etc. For healthcare, how much worse are surgical masks as PPE than N95, and are goggles or a face shield necessary, etc. That's why the conflicting advice. My own opinion is: wear them!

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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      Replying to @BobKerns

      I just don't see that the evidence is somehow not clear or would deviate from common sense. Masks leads to a significant reduction in infections. They are by themselves not perfect (but that was never the claim). Further reduction requires face shields/goggles, helmets etc.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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      Replying to @Plinz @BobKerns

      There is a tradeoff: the more difficult the protection, the higher the cost and the lower the compliance. It may be impractical to give everyone a motorized gas mask. The question is how many health care workers, elderly and rest-of-population you want to save at which cost.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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      Replying to @Plinz @BobKerns

      It's a complex calculation that is also morally not trivial, and it depends on modeling a distribution of possible ground truths. What irks me is that the CDC and WHO do not seem to make such calculations but apparently pull a misinformed opinion out of their asses.

      10:42 PM - 27 Mar 2020
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      • Jason McCandless Bob Kerns
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Bob Kerns‏ @BobKerns Mar 27
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          Replying to @Plinz

          I'd really like to see that WHO take you referenced, unless it's the "false sense of security" argument, in which case, don't bother. Seen enough of those over the years. I presume they're doing the calculations and then not bothering to communicate them. Also a problem.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Mar 27
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          Replying to @BobKerns

          Joscha Bach Retweeted World Health Organization Western Pacific

          https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024?s=20 …

          Joscha Bach added,

          2:17
          World Health Organization Western PacificVerified account @WHOWPRO
          If you do not have any respiratory symptoms, such as fever, cough, or runny nose, you do not need to wear a medical mask. When used alone, masks can give you a false feeling of protection and can even be a source of infection when not used correctly. ➡️https://bit.ly/2QN3QOp  pic.twitter.com/JDQhnowx3p
          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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