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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 9
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      Replying to @IntuitMachine

      This is not what he said here. Every stepwise constructive or evolutionary process is in a sense an optimization via a gradient based method, so DL is a sufficiently broad methodology, but you'll still need to set up the system performing the optimization or meta optimization.

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    2. Grady Booch‏Verified account @Grady_Booch Jan 10
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      Replying to @Plinz @IntuitMachine

      So, DL is an architecture AND a methodology AND the mechanism behind all of evolution? Next, you’ll tell me that is also serves to unify the theory of gravity with the standard model of physics! @GaryMarcus

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 10
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      Replying to @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine @GaryMarcus

      No, my understanding is that Yann LeCun thinks of DL as automating the optimization of a program for computing a complex function. Depending on the optimization method, the program or its generator function will often be differentiable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Grady Booch‏Verified account @Grady_Booch Jan 10
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      Replying to @Plinz @IntuitMachine @GaryMarcus

      Indeed; I was simply building on what you said: “Every stepwise constructive or evolutionary process is in a sense an optimization via a gradient based method.”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 10
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      Replying to @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine @GaryMarcus

      It does not follow that each of these processes is also DL, but that DL (understood as a methodology) is not obviously unable to reproduce them

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Grady Booch‏Verified account @Grady_Booch Jan 10
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      Replying to @Plinz @IntuitMachine @GaryMarcus

      Indeed. Which is why I asked the question earlier, what is DL not?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 10
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      Replying to @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine @GaryMarcus

      Handcrafted solutions

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Jan 10
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      Replying to @Plinz @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine

      does that mean no priors? isn't convolution a handcrafted prior? wasn't the structure of AlexNet handcrafted?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 10
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      Replying to @GaryMarcus @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine

      Yes, but the difference is that DL is moving the handcrafting up one layer: classical AI mostly relied on writing algorithms, current AI mostly relies on writing algorithms that discover algorithms. Perhaps the next wave will be fueled by meta-learning, i.e. 3rd order programming

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Gary Marcus‏ @GaryMarcus Jan 10
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      Replying to @Plinz @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine

      i asked three questions; i don't quite understand how this answers any of them or which it is intended as an answer to. there's LOTS of handcrafting in deep learning that you seem to be ignoring. Some of the handcrafting may have moved up a later but there is plenty left.

      3 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Jan 10
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      Replying to @GaryMarcus @Grady_Booch @IntuitMachine

      Treaded discussion is hard on twitter. I agree that many DL solutions are hybrids (and don't think that this is a contested position). Automating architecture search/modification is only just beginning. But NLP and computer vision have basically dumped decades of prior work.

      1:44 PM - 10 Jan 2020
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      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. Carlos E. Perez‏ @IntuitMachine Jan 12
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          Replying to @Plinz @GaryMarcus @Grady_Booch

          It's the 'dumping of decades of prior work' that has upset many. But this is the nature of science. There's no guarantee, no matter how philosophically sound ones arguments, that one can be totally wrong. GOFAI is useful, but not useful for a General Intelligence solution.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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