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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that voicing disapproval and not associating with people we disapprove of is healthy and often necessary. "Canceling" goes beyond that: it amounts to enforcing a general ban on approval of and association with a person, and is not sustainable in a pluralist society.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @s_r_constantin

      For example, imagine a physicist has supported an initiative against gay marriage, and my values dictate that I won't be friends with that physicist. Is society better off if I also get that physicist fired, and he is now working as a Uber driver or becomes homeless?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I would consider that a calibration issue -- does opposing gay marriage really require being fired from an unrelated academic position? is it that severe, or that relevant, an offense that this consequence is good to seek?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      There *are* actions that I think would be worth firing someone over, such as violent crimes. I don't think opposing gay marriage is worth firing someone over. But I don't disagree with the principle "there exist situations when you should try to get someone fired."

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that the process of cutting someone off from economic or cultural integration into society needs to be based on a legal process, because it has enormous consequences and costs, not just for the individual, but for society itself. Cancel culture sidesteps that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Maybe. But *a* legal process need not be *our* legal system. (I've been thinking for a while that adjudication-as-a-private-service might be useful for situations like these.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      What do you have in mind? Should there be a network of competing private legal systems, and the subscription of your employer determines which particular political ideas get you fired this year?

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I’m not sure. What you’re proposing doesn’t sound ideal, I admit.

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      Let me put it this way: the US criminal justice system is such a shitshow that most people hesitate to use it, out of justified concern that it will both ignore real crimes and use totally disproportionate force and cruelty against the accused.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      The "court of public opinion" is epistemically terrible compared to a real trial; but most accusations of crimes never go to trial! If you include the whole process of seeking legal justice, starting with "call the police", I'm not sure it's more fair or humane than "canceling."

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      Canceling does not offer presumption of innocence, appeals process, commensurability, restitution, ex post facto, habeas corpus, accountability of the court, correction etc. The US legal system may be bad but not that bad.

      2:12 PM - 10 Dec 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz

          Most of these don’t apply in practice; people are routinely jailed for over a year without trial. The court system doesn’t have the staff to give most people a trial at all. The real penalty isn’t the sentence, but the bail, jail time, and plea deal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @s_r_constantin

          Yes, it seems to be totally broken and is terrifying to me on all levels.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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