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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation

      Sarah Constantin Retweeted Arthur Brrrrr  🌮

      Yeah, this. I don't always agree with *who* gets canceled and *why*, but the alternative -- "don't voice disapproval or voluntarily disassociate when you believe something to be unethical" -- is a lot worse.https://twitter.com/ArthurB/status/1204469207825616896 …

      Sarah Constantin added,

      Arthur Brrrrr  🌮 @ArthurB
      Biting that bullet. A misused tool is still a tool and it would be one we'd have to contend with regardless of libertarian advocacy. Besides, reliance on these non-coercive means may mean less reliance on political means, and that's still progress even when use is misguided. https://twitter.com/Ethan_Heilman/status/1204394763677515776 …
      Show this thread
      4 replies 4 retweets 20 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that voicing disapproval and not associating with people we disapprove of is healthy and often necessary. "Canceling" goes beyond that: it amounts to enforcing a general ban on approval of and association with a person, and is not sustainable in a pluralist society.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @s_r_constantin

      For example, imagine a physicist has supported an initiative against gay marriage, and my values dictate that I won't be friends with that physicist. Is society better off if I also get that physicist fired, and he is now working as a Uber driver or becomes homeless?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      I would consider that a calibration issue -- does opposing gay marriage really require being fired from an unrelated academic position? is it that severe, or that relevant, an offense that this consequence is good to seek?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

      There *are* actions that I think would be worth firing someone over, such as violent crimes. I don't think opposing gay marriage is worth firing someone over. But I don't disagree with the principle "there exist situations when you should try to get someone fired."

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      I think that the process of cutting someone off from economic or cultural integration into society needs to be based on a legal process, because it has enormous consequences and costs, not just for the individual, but for society itself. Cancel culture sidesteps that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Maybe. But *a* legal process need not be *our* legal system. (I've been thinking for a while that adjudication-as-a-private-service might be useful for situations like these.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin

      What do you have in mind? Should there be a network of competing private legal systems, and the subscription of your employer determines which particular political ideas get you fired this year?

      12:08 PM - 10 Dec 2019
      • 1 Like
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      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz

          I’m not sure. What you’re proposing doesn’t sound ideal, I admit.

          4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @s_r_constantin @Plinz

          Let me put it this way: the US criminal justice system is such a shitshow that most people hesitate to use it, out of justified concern that it will both ignore real crimes and use totally disproportionate force and cruelty against the accused.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 4 more replies
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        2. mattgiammarino‏ @mattgiammarino 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @s_r_constantin

          Yes to competing legal systems, but not to a corporate market for access to these systems. I don't imagine the systems are entirely mutually exclusive. Perhaps access based on the land you use, and the political organizations that also use that land?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Dec 2019
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          Replying to @mattgiammarino @s_r_constantin

          In some way, organizations with voluntary membership implement their own legal systems, but they have to fully submit to a global legal system. Having two competing legal root nodes (say, sharia and a secular legal code) is not going to work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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